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Seeing Springer WaterBug 20 tomorrow - would love others' thoughts please


TrickyWoo56

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Hi folks,

 

My partner and I have found a lovely looking SWB 20' on Facebook and I've had a long call with the owner and it all sounds good. I'm relatively new to boating so would really love others' views:

 

It's 1990 and the 20' is fine for us as it'll be for occasional use only and we won't always say on board overnight anyway

Honda 15hp 4-stroke o/b - recent £600 spend on service and magneto - I prefer an outboard so good there I think

Owner has lived on it for last 7 yrs based at Aynho but however in constant use

Overplating done winter 17/18 with back-to-metal paint then 14 coats by Aynho Wharf Services

BSS to Aug 22. 'Will need blacking and new anodes then'

Paloma h/w

3 birth layout

Vanessa cooker

2 way fridge (no gas used)

Inverter

One large Honda tank and two aux

Recently services Hyundai genny

All paperwork available (no survey)

 

£18,500

 

What do you think?

 

Thank you,

 

Richard

Edited by TrickyWoo56
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Suggest that you have a look at the freeboard.

The 'bug' was only 3.75mm thick steel, and the boat was 'built around' (buoyancy) that weight of hull. If it has, as you suggest been OVERPLATED rather than REPLATED then it is quite possible that the hull is now too heavy for the original buoyancy calculations.

Having an outboard instead of an inboard will certainly help, but (presumably you are having it surveyed as it will be difficult to insure a 31 year old boat without a survey) ask you surveyor to look at the freeboard.

 

By '2-way' fridge I presume you mean 12v and 230v. The fridge should not be used on 12v if you only have an outboard. It will kill your batteries in a matter of a few hours. The principle of them is for caravanning where you get the fridge cold overnight before you leave home using 230v, then switch over to 12v whilst towing and have a big alternator to keep the battery charged, the manual will say something like "fridge must be switched off if the vehicle engine is turned off" When you arrive at the camp site you plug it back into the 230v supply.

The alternator on an outboard will be unlikely to keep up with demand as it is far too small.

 

 

Investigation into the sinking of a Springer after overplating (It was a bigger one than the bug)

Port of London - River Thames (pla.co.uk)

 

Thoughts on overplating

The dangers of overplating (iims.org.uk)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/282803690047743/

Thank you - interesting reading!

 

The ad says 'Hull over-plated and works carried out to meet current spec / insurance requirements. In very good condition due to steel used.' (Referring to the original steel)

 

All else being true, is the price reasonable?

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My little boat is only 1/8 inch steel ( springer kit I think). Any rusty sections were cut out and replaced rather than over plated. Also I can only insure 3rd party with 'Basic boat insurance' due to age and hull thickness. 

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I suppose the price is just a figure picked frim the ether, it's not likely to be worth much less than £15k, if in good condition (relative to age), but it is still a risky proposition . You should get an out of water hull survey at the very minimum.

As far as I am aware Springer built boats of steel which is  thinner than that used today, so to me, that is rubbish, not a bonus feature.

The overplating indicates the original steel corroded, hence needed plated, if this is done well, fair enough, but you don't know just by looking.

 

Calm down a bit.

 

You will get a good GRP cruiser to suit your purposes, so I think you should have a look around, before spending any money.

Edited by LadyG
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13 minutes ago, TrickyWoo56 said:

All else being true, is the price reasonable?

 

Personally , NO.

 

 I'd go for a bigger GRP boat at around half that price.

Springer boats do have a 'following' but they are not for me.

 

Of course other opinions are available.

 

Sam did a great job in getting boating out the masses at a budget price.

 

A brief summary of Springer boats.

 

Even in the seemingly egalitarian world of boaters, there’s a social pecking order and this is rarely more pronounced than where Springer boats are concerned. Springer was a company based in the Midlands that began mass-producing cheap and cheerful live-aboard narrowboats in the 1960s. While their affordability allowed countless people to join the boating lifestyle, the standard of their construction is sometimes, perhaps unfairly, questioned by the sniffier residents of converted working boats or higher-spec residential craft. But there’s still something hugely endearing about the Springer. These are boats made solidly and entirely without pretension, and as a consequence Springer boats have provided a friendly and affordable introduction to the canal network for thousands of boaters.

Sam Springer spotted the growing market for purpose-built live-aboard boats in the late 1960s when he was working as a steel fabricator making water tanks in Market Harborough, close to the Grand Union and River Welland. He decided to move into boat-building later claiming “I used to build water tanks, building boats is the same thing but in reverse”. Although his boats were well constructed, Springer had a reputation for using whatever steel was available, meaning that his hulls weren’t always as thick as they could have been. His approach can be summarised by the popular yarn that early in his career, Springer acquired some scrap steel that had once formed an old gasometer and drove back and forwards over it with a truck to remove the bend so it was flat enough to use. Because of such shortcuts, his boats were recognised as providing great value for money and his yard was soon knocking out 400 a year, accounting for almost 50 per cent of the market and at a much lower price than any competition.

Springer boats were built to all sizes but most have two distinguishing features: a raised splash board at the bow and, less visibly, a v-shaped hull rather than the usual flat bottom. They were also among the first boats to be built entirely out of steel rather than with a wooden cabin. Springers do have a tendency to look a little boxy, which does nothing for their reputation among waterways connoisseurs, but they are still lovable boats with a colourful history that, as the years have passed, has lent them a certain rakish charm. Belying their reputation, Springer boats also appear to be impressively hard-wearing with thousands still in use despite the fact the company closed down in the mid-1990s. And Springer boats aren’t just confined to the English waterways – in 1990, the boatyard built the Typhoo Atlantic Challenger, a 37-foot craft shaped like a bottle that crossed the Atlantic from New York to Falmouth. Not bad for a company whose first boats were made from a scrapped gasometer.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Calm down a bit.

You will get a good GRP cruiser to suit your purposes, so I think you should have a look around, before spending any money.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I'm aware of GRP boats and decided to look at a 20' narrow boat by choice. I've had a good look around already and this will certainly suit our purposes more than a GRP

 

And, erm, quite calm thank you ?

Edited by TrickyWoo56
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4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I wouldnt like yo try to use that portapotti ....

 

7 minutes ago, rasputin said:

sold

 

 

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

This looks a better bet https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/springer-23-waterbug-for-sale/646116 with work carried out by a very well respected company

Yes we did see that one however I really like the idea of pay and go with everything needed except the personal touch (not withstanding a survey obv.)

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The lack of privacy on a 23 foot boat is amazing - and its even worse on a 20 footer when you are losing 3 foot off a 10 foot cabin (30%)

It's not the privacy  , it's the sliding aspect eith your feet at 2different heights...

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The lack of privacy on a 23 foot boat is amazing - and its even worse on a 20 footer when you are losing 3 foot off a 10 foot cabin (30%)

 

That's a very good point. And one I'd not considered! Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, TrickyWoo56 said:

 

That's a very good point. And one I'd not considered! Thank you. 

Edited to add - just asked the missus and it's not an issue for her so I'm good with the farmyard atmos too :-0

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Personally I would always go with steel given the choice. I don't worry in a narrow lock ( or any lock) about not being able to protect the hull with fenders. I've clouted the bottom of this boat on hidden obstructions that I think would potentially  have holed a fibreglass boat. 

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29 minutes ago, Kieron G said:

Personally I would always go with steel given the choice. I don't worry in a narrow lock ( or any lock) about not being able to protect the hull with fenders. I've clouted the bottom of this boat on hidden obstructions that I think would potentially  have holed a fibreglass boat. 

That is one of two reasons for the NB choice. The other is the wood stove and heating meaning I can work from the boat on crispy cold days in the winter and even use it then too. 

 

The decision for 20' lower overall annual cost and far lower initial cost esp. given its intended irregular use

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

 

As far as I am aware Springer built boats of steel which is  thinner than that used today, so to me, that is rubbish, not a bonus feature.

The standard Springer hull was built of 5mm (3/16 in) plate, although Sam would use thicker plate to order. Most other builders at this time were using 6mm.

The 20 ft Waterbug deliberately used 3mm plate and an outboard as it was intended to be trailable. That said, I believe it was on the limit for towing at the time, and as boats age they tend to acquire additional fittings, equipment and contents, as well overplating. And over time, towing regulations have tightened (particularly for those who passed their test after 1997), so towing is no longer really possible. I think the 23 ft version was always too heavy to tow.

Edited by David Mack
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Its a lot more than it cost when new................................Just saying...........................and it is now 31 years old..................

 

No gas on the fridge but 2 way? What is the fridge? If its 12v absorption it will kill batteries if the engine is not running and an outboard charge rate will not keep up with it.

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17 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its a lot more than it cost when new................................Just saying...........................and it is now 31 years old..................

 

No gas on the fridge but 2 way? What is the fridge? If its 12v absorption it will kill batteries if the engine is not running and an outboard charge rate will not keep up with it.

 

2 hours for the echo - must be a record.

 

 

 

 

Springer Boats.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Even if it's a 12V compressor fridge plus dedicated inverter I doubt the OB charging would keep up with its consumption. If the OP goes ahead I hope it's a three-way fridge that can be got working on gas and the 12V disconnected. Or they use it as a cold box and bring freezer blocks from home.

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