Sailaway recommendations (Basic shell) Midlands area

[NbJune]

Hello,

 

I am looking for a 56-58ft sailaway narrowboat shell. Budget around 20k. Engine, gearbox, water and fuel tank only. 

I have found a few builders around the country that provide (limited) information/slots for this type of shell. Need some direction in moving forward.

Any advice or suggestions welcome.

[Tony Brooks]

As even Collingwood seem to quote around £35,000 for a bare sailaway I think that you need to revise your expectations.

 

You ask for advice so:

 

Have you investigated the implications of the RCD for you?

 

Are you aware of just how long it takes to fit out a bare hull? Expect two to three times longer than you initially think.

 

Do you have a place where you can do the fit out and can get easy deliveries of materials? Trying to fit out and abide by the CC rules makes the whole thing extremely difficult and thus time-consuming.

 

Remember a budget hull is always a budget hull so however good the fit out it will not enhance  the future selling price as much as many think.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

I think you will need to revise your budget up to £30k to £40k.

 

Even the 'budget' economy builders like Colecraft are £30k + VAT + Delivery for an unlined, sailaway hull with engine.

A Hull (and nothing else) is around £17k + VAT + Delivery

 

On top of those prices you have things like £610 + VAT for lockers, £1k + VAT for a hatch, £260 + VAT (each) for windows, scroll down and look at the additional prices.

 

PRICE-LIST-CUSTOMERS-FEB-2021.pdf (collingwoodboatbuilders.co.uk)

 

[David Mack]

At that sort of budget you are limited to buying a doer-upper and refitting.

 

You might strike lucky and find someone's uncompleted sailaway fitout (although I would still expect to pay more than £20k), but ask yourself, if they couldn't complete the fitout, can you?

[Murflynn]

I was under the impression that another aspiring boater has done lots of planning including detailed costings and has proved (at least to himself) that it is a piece of cake to fit out a 70x14 sailaway while continuously cruising around central London and using a bike to transport all his materials.

 

If he can do why not anyone else?  

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I was under the impression that another aspiring boater has done lots of planning including detailed costings and has proved (at least to himself) that it is a piece of cake to fit out a 70x14 sailaway while continuously cruising around central London and using a bike to transport all his materials.

 

If he can do why not anyone else?  

 

No, I'm pretty sure his plan was to continuously cruise on the tidal Thames because he'd been on facebook and someone told him it was easy.

 

Anyway, let's not tar NbJune with the same brush just because they've underestimated the price of a sailaway.

[Murflynn]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

No, I'm pretty sure his plan was to continuously cruise on the tidal Thames because he'd been on facebook and someone told him it was easy.

 

Anyway, let's not tar NbJune with the same brush just because they've underestimated the price of a sailaway.

 

fair comment 

[blackrose]

I think Collingwood are about the cheapest sailaways you'll find. If you go on their website they have a pretty comprehensive pricelist pdf.

 

As others have said, Collingwood are a budget builder, but if your objective is simply a budget boat rather than resale value then I'm sure they're ok. The main issue I've seen is that on some of their boats they seem to build ridiculously narrow and dangerously unusable gunwales so I'd make sure to specify a usable width.

[Slim]

I fitted out a a new 55' bare shell back in 1996. It was based on a budget hull fabricated by Eastwood Engineering. £175 per foot including tanks, stern gear and engine beds of my choice. Side hatches extra.  It was done as a DIY project and cost was not a significant factor. I did the work afloat in a nearby marina with 230v power. I also did ALL the work myself including a FULL rebuild on a BMC 1.8. How much did it cost?, god knows, I don't. All I can say is that it was a lot. How long did it take? It was delivered in May 96 and when I set off on my first real trip in 2003? to the IWA Festival at Beale Park there were 69 hours on the engine and the kitchen was still not fully fitted !. Was it worth it ? All I can say is that for me the answer is yes. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Is this to be your first boat? If so, buy a second, third or even fourth hand one and then plan your ultimate build when you know all the wrinkles and pitfalls.

 

Prices for everything boat are stupidly high as present, buy used and wait a while.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is this to be your first boat? If so, buy a second, third or even fourth hand one and then plan your ultimate build when you know all the wrinkles and pitfalls.

 

Prices for everything boat are stupidly high as present, buy used and wait a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at the other thread, it appears he MAY just get a 20 foot Springer for his £20k budget.

[Tony Brooks]

33 minutes ago, Slim said:

I fitted out a a new 55' bare shell back in 1996. It was based on a budget hull fabricated by Eastwood Engineering. £175 per foot including tanks, stern gear and engine beds of my choice. Side hatches extra.  It was done as a DIY project and cost was not a significant factor. I did the work afloat in a nearby marina with 230v power. I also did ALL the work myself including a FULL rebuild on a BMC 1.8. How much did it cost?, god knows, I don't. All I can say is that it was a lot. How long did it take? It was delivered in May 96 and when I set off on my first real trip in 2003? to the IWA Festival at Beale Park there were 69 hours on the engine and the kitchen was still not fully fitted !. Was it worth it ? All I can say is that for me the answer is yes. 

 

There you have it. 7 years to complete and at an unknown cost. That is fine if you have  a burning ambition to fit out your own boat yourself and I suppose such a long timescale allows parts to be gradually bought out of income. I am sure it's the timescale and final costs that so many fail to even grasp when they ask questions such as the OP has done.

 

Anyway well done, there must be loads of satisfaction to cruise the boat you fitted out from scratch but it's not something I would recommend to a newby. To many times having to work very late and scramble to get a new hire boat out for its first hire and that's with people who had a fair idea about time sales.

[peterboat]

43 minutes ago, Slim said:

I fitted out a a new 55' bare shell back in 1996. It was based on a budget hull fabricated by Eastwood Engineering. £175 per foot including tanks, stern gear and engine beds of my choice. Side hatches extra.  It was done as a DIY project and cost was not a significant factor. I did the work afloat in a nearby marina with 230v power. I also did ALL the work myself including a FULL rebuild on a BMC 1.8. How much did it cost?, god knows, I don't. All I can say is that it was a lot. How long did it take? It was delivered in May 96 and when I set off on my first real trip in 2003? to the IWA Festival at Beale Park there were 69 hours on the engine and the kitchen was still not fully fitted !. Was it worth it ? All I can say is that for me the answer is yes. 

I have seen a couple of their shells, as you came out of the lock they were down the river on the left hand side, seemed to be stuck out from the building where they were built. 

[Athy]

58 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is this to be your first boat? If so, buy a second, third or even fourth hand one and then plan your ultimate build when you know all the wrinkles and pitfalls.

 

The O.P.'s previous poste suggest that he has owned a boat before.

 

 

 

 

 

[Slim]

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There you have it. 7 years to complete and at an unknown cost. That is fine if you have  a burning ambition to fit out your own boat yourself and I suppose such a long timescale allows parts to be gradually bought out of income. I am sure it's the timescale and final costs that so many fail to even grasp when they ask questions such as the OP has done.

 

Anyway well done, there must be loads of satisfaction to cruise the boat you fitted out from scratch but it's not something I would recommend to a newby. To many times having to work very late and scramble to get a new hire boat out for its first hire and that's with people who had a fair idea about time sales.

I started out when my wife died with the intention of selling it at some stage  and returning to offshore (my first love). I sold our 30' yacht which funded the hull, engine and a few other things. Other costs simply came out of income over the years. I didn't skimp on either materials or fittings. Tools were a significant cost as were silly little things like screws, sealants and glues. Much 'went off' when only part used.

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned satisfaction. Last Monday I managed to get back to it after lockdown and the sheer pleasure of just sitting there with a mug of tea thinking "I did all this" just cannot be described  ?

[Farey]

I'd recommend getting it sprayfoamed inside. I bought a sailaway in 2005. Interior was sprayfoamed with ballast and flooring down. I fitted out myself in a marina with power, working on it 2 - 3 days a week, and it took about 18 months to fit out.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

I fitted out a a new 55' bare shell back in 1996. It was based on a budget hull fabricated by Eastwood Engineering. £175 per foot including tanks, stern gear and engine beds of my choice. Side hatches extra.  It was done as a DIY project and cost was not a significant factor. I did the work afloat in a nearby marina with 230v power. I also did ALL the work myself including a FULL rebuild on a BMC 1.8. How much did it cost?, god knows, I don't. All I can say is that it was a lot. How long did it take? It was delivered in May 96 and when I set off on my first real trip in 2003? to the IWA Festival at Beale Park there were 69 hours on the engine and the kitchen was still not fully fitted !. Was it worth it ? All I can say is that for me the answer is yes. 

Arthur Eastwood, good shells ?

[Slim]

35 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have seen a couple of their shells, as you came out of the lock they were down the river on the left hand side, seemed to be stuck out from the building where they were built. 

When I bought the shell they had a workshop on, I think, a farm.  It was Dad (Arthur) his 20 year old son and his 15 year old. Sitting there with a chipped mug of tea I asked if I could see a set of plans to get an idea of construction. Arthur grinned, picked up some chalk and roughed out a diagram on the concrete floor. He was insistent that he built out of British steel to 10:6:5:4 . The 5 is the cabin sides. The style may not be as fancy as some but structurally it's substantial. He also gave myself and a couple of friends the run of his workshop one weekend so we could slap a coat of paint on to give protection prior to a proper paint job.

[system 4-50]

I got my sailaway from Colecraft in 2010 and I would definitely go there again.  You can get cheaper but the quality is worth the difference.  Professional sprayfoam, yes, every time.

[Slim]

18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Arthur Eastwood, good shells ?

I think that apart from Peterboat you're the first to ever recognise the builder (Arthur) 

[Murflynn]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There you have it. 7 years to complete and at an unknown cost. That is fine if you have  a burning ambition to fit out your own boat yourself and I suppose such a long timescale allows parts to be gradually bought out of income. I am sure it's the timescale and final costs that so many fail to even grasp when they ask questions such as the OP has done.

 

Anyway well done, there must be loads of satisfaction to cruise the boat you fitted out from scratch but it's not something I would recommend to a newby. To many times having to work very late and scramble to get a new hire boat out for its first hire and that's with people who had a fair idea about time sales.

 

.................  not to mention the practicality of doing the work in a marina, preferably on the hard so you can set the boat up level, and with mains power available.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

I got my sailaway from Colecraft in 2010 and I would definitely go there again.  You can get cheaper but the quality is worth the difference.  Professional sprayfoam, yes, every time.

 

It's all relative isn't it. Colecraft are good boats, but compared to some top end builders they're a budget builder. I used to help a neighbour with his lined Colecraft, putting in skin fittings, etc, and to be honest although I could see a few bits that had been done to a better standard than my Liverpool Boat sailaway, there wasn't all that much in it. The sprayfoaming was just as bad as mine but the steelwork was a bit fancier.

[Slim]

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

 

.................  not to mention the practicality of doing the work in a marina, preferably on the hard so you can set the boat up level, and with mains power available.

I did mine afloat in a marina with room to work ashore if necessary. Getting twenty 8'x 4' sheets of veneered ply on board was quite interesting.  

[system 4-50]

Professional sprayfoam is done by contractors, and If I was doing it again, I would not let them leave the site until I has checked it over much more thoroughly than I did last time.  I used 13 large cans to fill the gaps and holidays they left. The cans of course are nowhere as good as the professional stuff.  They were contracted by me not Colecraft so it was my lack of oversight.

I don't see Colecraft as budget builders, they are not cheap!!  If you want them to build a high-end boat for you they can and they will, at a high-end price.  I have no experience of crap builders so I can't make comparisons, but I have had very few quibbles with what I got.  I asked for a cheap-end boat but the result did not feel cheap.

What do I like about my Colecraft?

1. I like the shape.  Solidly practical, no narrow snout.  Minimal banana-ing, as specified by me 'cos I think its ugly.

2. Solid build throughout.

3. Shaped well deck so that it drains to the scuppers.

4. Lots of strakes - because I don't worry about the boat's feelings as I clatter into and out of locks etc.

5. Good size gunnels - I haven't slipped off yet.  I asked for narrow ones and they strongly recommended against, which advice I accepted.

6. Large cruiser-deck drainage channels.  I normally have a dry bilge unless I do something stupid.

7. Tiller height set for me and its perfect.

8. Tiller arc such that it is impossible or very difficult to catch it on eg lock walls.

9. Well reinforced cabin side walls. No waving.

10. All welds nicely finished, no fine angles for rust to start in.

11. Fantastic 2 pack paint covering supplied as a base coat rather than a grey primer as some supply.  It has lasted very well where my top coats have worn off!

12. Epoxy not bitumin blacking.

13. Manouvreability: excellent.  Cruising is comfortable.

14. Good-size top bearing on the tiller.

 

Less good:

1. The steel bow locker hatch does not come anywhere near sealing.  This is clearly by design, but I would like it water-tight. (it is not a gas locker.)

2. Roof rail (standard cylindrical type) snapped due to uneven thermal expansion when the boat was half in the sun on a frosty morning.  It was easily repaired but it was obviously left in tension when built.

3. Deck board can rattle.  Haven't had time to find a cure for this occasional problem.

4. The throttle/control is in the traditional place, but I don't like it there! For some positions of the tiller I can't reach it.

 

And they were a pleasure to deal with as I started fitting out in their yard so I shall continue to sing their praises.

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, Slim said:

I did mine afloat in a marina with room to work ashore if necessary. Getting twenty 8'x 4' sheets of veneered ply on board was quite interesting.  

 

but many marinas will not allow major work on a boat moored alongside others who will inevitably be disturbed by power tools, dust, hammering, blokes carrying 20 sheets of 8x4 along the shared pontoon, not to mention the string of expletives regularly created by self-builders when they get it ever-so-slightly wrong.