First boat, help with insurance + survey

[jtylr]

So I have just purchased my first boat, a 35’ Les Allen semi-trad, built 1982 with a lovely 10HP Saab engine.

 

Needs to be fitted out, which is exactly what I wanted, and looks to be in good nick. Was a sensible price and ticked most boxes for me, so took a bit of a punt and bought it on the spot. (have viewed some terrible NB’s at double the price over the last couple of weeks!)

 

I would like to get a full out of water survey done which will be helpful for insurance purposes due to it’s age, and so any problems that need addressing pre-fit out can be completed. The boat is currently moored close to Harefield Marina but they don’t have any space on their slipway until September...

 

Can anyone recommend somewhere that will give me some basic insurance until a survey is completed, I’ll be fitting it out nicely and will want to up this to fully comp a bit further down the line. I have looked at the suggestions for older boats without survey in a couple of other threads already but perhaps their policies have changed since as they are now asking for surveys.

 

Also if anyone happens to know of somewhere I could get the boat our for a survey that would be great! 

Edited March 26, 2021 by jtylr

[Alan de Enfield]

Did you not have a survey when you bought it ? That would be OK for your insurers.

 

Any insurer offering fully-comp is going to demand a ful survey at that age, but you can insure it 3rd party without a survey.

 

Here is a specialist 3rd party provider.

 

 

Boat Insurance UK | Compare Boat Insurance Cover - Insure4Boats

[Tim Lewis]

14 minutes ago, jtylr said:

So I have just purchased my first boat, a 35’ Les Allen semi-trad, built 1982 with a lovely 10HP Saab engine.

 

Needs to be fitted out, which is exactly what I wanted, and looks to be in good nick. Was a sensible price and ticked most boxes for me, so took a bit of a punt and bought it on the spot. (have viewed some terrible NB’s at double the price over the last couple of weeks!)

 

I would like to get a full out of water survey done which will be helpful for insurance purposes due to it’s age, and so any problems that need addressing pre-fit out can be completed. The boat is currently moored close to Harefield Marina but they don’t have any space on their slipway until September...

 

Can anyone recommend somewhere that will give me some basic insurance until a survey is completed, I’ll be fitting it out nicely and will want to up this to fully comp a bit further down the line. I have looked at the suggestions for older boats without survey in a couple of other threads already but perhaps their policies have changed since as they are now asking for surveys.

 

Also if anyone happens to know of somewhere I could get the boat our for a survey that would be great! 

 

Third party insurance available here:

 

Basic Boat liability insurance-small boat liability insurance-boat insurance (basic-boat.com)

 

Have you tried the floating dry dock at Denham for survey availability?

[jtylr]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Did you not have a survey when you bought it ? That would be OK for your insurers.

Nope! That’s why I said it’s a bit of a punt...

 

Very tidy boat though with no signs of visible corrosion anywhere on the exterior or around the waterline. Some surface rust in the bilges/engine bay (both bone dry) that I had a good scrape and poke at and nothing fell apart.

 

Built 1982, first registered with CRT 2020. Helpful seller who knows the boat’s history and has paperwork etc.

 

The craftsmanship and detailing on the hull and cabin is beautiful and the price left me with a sizeable chunk of my budget spare if it’s required.

Edited March 26, 2021 by jtylr

[Richard10002]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Did you not have a survey when you bought it ? That would be OK for your insurers.

 

Did you not read the OP Alan. Perhaps you just misunderstood it?  ......... it all seemed fairly clear to me

[ditchcrawler]

With 3rd party it is only that. |If the boat sinks the lost plus the cost of salvage will be down to you

[jtylr]

Got some cover in place with basic boat, that’ll do fine until I sort survey out. Thanks!

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

With 3rd party it is only that. |If the boat sinks the lost plus the cost of salvage will be down to you

I think Basic Boat includes salvage liability.

I know a few historic boat owners use them on the basis that it is cheap, covers the legal minimum requirements, and in the event of damage they would probably DIY most of the repairs anyway. Doesn't cover the total loss situation, but how likely is that?

Edited March 26, 2021 by David Mack

[jtylr]

The policy I have just taken with Basic Boat covers salvage/wreckage removal up to £50k

Edited March 26, 2021 by jtylr

[OldGoat]

If it's an Allen boat - does it lean over to one side a bit?

 

If you're taking it out of the water for a survey - it might be worth having it blacked? (where I am the cost of cranage is horrendous...

[jtylr]

20 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If it's an Allen boat - does it lean over to one side a bit?

 

If you're taking it out of the water for a survey - it might be worth having it blacked? (where I am the cost of cranage is horrendous...

Not that I noticed, and was poking around for maybe 1.5h. Why do they have a lean? I didn’t come across that in my pre-viewing research.

 

Was blacked approx. 6 months ago (on covered dry standing 5 years previous that) when she went back in the water, but will ask surveyor for his opinion on the job done. Seller is in his early 80’s, has been on boats since the war and has likely forgotten more about NB’s than I’ll ever know.
 

Asked for a boating lesson as part of the sale, so we are “making a day of it” next week when I collect which will be nice.

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by jtylr

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, jtylr said:

Was blacked approx. 6 months ago

 

If it was blacked in October I'd suggest that it may not have adhered very well, but you never know, it may have been a warm dry week.

Worth putting on the surveyoprs check list.

[jtylr]

Thanks, will confirm blacking date with seller and ensure surveyor has a look.

[OldGoat]

32 minutes ago, jtylr said:

Not that I noticed, and was poking around for maybe 1.5h. Why do they have a lean? I didn’t come across that in my pre-viewing research.

 

Was blacked approx. 6 months ago (on covered dry standing 5 years previous that) when she went back in the water, but will ask surveyor for his opinion on the job done. Seller is in his early 80’s, has been on boats since the war and has likely forgotten more about NB’s than I’ll ever know.
 

Asked for a boating lesson as part of the sale, so we are “making a day of it” next week when I collect which will be nice.

 

In the late 1970s it was a standing joke amongst certain aficionados (?sp) that  Allen boats always had a slight lean because their boatyards had a slight slope on it lengthwise and Les never corrected it. I wanted an Allen hull - bit Bob would never answer the phone - so I gave up and found  a builder with a flat yard...   

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, jtylr said:

The policy I have just taken with Basic Boat covers salvage/wreckage removal up to £50k

 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I think Basic Boat includes salvage liability.

I know a few historic boat owners use them on the basis that it is cheap, covers the legal minimum requirements, and in the event of damage they would probably DIY most of the repairs anyway. Doesn't cover the total loss situation, but how likely is that?

That's good news, the couple who had their boat sink on the Thames weren't covered and had to pay for recovery

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

That's good news, the couple who had their boat sink on the Thames weren't covered and had to pay for recovery

Presumably they weren't with Basic Boat.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Presumably they weren't with Basic Boat.

No idea. I just wanted to make the OP aware of the risk

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, jtylr said:

Thanks, will confirm blacking date with seller and ensure surveyor has a look.

 

The surveyor will remove bits of blacking all along the hull to check its thickness, so will need at least touching up and possibly recoating afterwards.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, jtylr said:

Thanks, will confirm blacking date with seller and ensure surveyor has a look.

That is a bit irrelevant when it was last done, If its your boat and it comes out for a survey you will see if it needs doing again or not regardless of the time, or just touching up where he grinds back

[OldGoat]

58 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is a bit irrelevant when it was last done, If its your boat and it comes out for a survey you will see if it needs doing again or not regardless of the time, or just touching up where he grinds back

Get a surveyor with "one of they newfangled  ultrasonic" thickness testers and there's no scraping needed.

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If it was blacked in October I'd suggest that it may not have adhered very well, but you never know, it may have been a warm dry week.

Worth putting on the surveyoprs check list.

Approx. 6 months ago could have been August or September, so just a clarification of the date would be fine.

[jtylr]

Thanks for the advice, very helpful.

 

Out of interest, how do they measure hull thickness without an ultrasonic thickness tester?

Edited March 26, 2021 by jtylr

[Alan de Enfield]

53 minutes ago, jtylr said:

Thanks for the advice, very helpful.

 

Out of interest, how do they measure hull thickness without an ultrasonic thickness tester?

 

 

Drill a hole and poke a depth gauge thru, the hole is then filled with plastic-padding and painted over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really.

 

 

 

[matty40s]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Drill a hole and poke a depth gauge thru, the hole is then filled with plastic-padding and painted over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really.

 

 

 

Norty 

 

Most Stowe Hill boats that go for sale tend to have a list. This is because most were built with most of the kit and bulkheads/fittings on one side, so Pete Hill wouldnt final ballast them until the owners had moved some stuff on.

He would then arrange steel blocks and weights to trim the boats correctly.

When these boats come for sale, most of the owners have had them for years, take their oodles of stuff off, and the boat develops the list, waiting for a new owners stuff to correct it.

[cuthound]

17 hours ago, jtylr said:

Thanks for the advice, very helpful.

 

Out of interest, how do they measure hull thickness without an ultrasonic thickness tester?

 

Prior to the invention of ultrasonic thickness testers, surveyors would hit the hull repeatedly with a hammer. Variations in the ringing sound indicated different thicknesses of steel. Obviously if the hammer went through the hull it was considered in need of repair...

 

Only the newer ultrasonic testers can measure hull thickness through a coating of blacking. Many surveyors don't trust them, although this may be lack of familiarity with them.

Edited March 27, 2021 by cuthound
Clarification