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New diesel water heater


RickS

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I have a Mikuni MX40 which has packed up. Not sure if it's serious or not but the two people I have spoken to about both said that if it isn't the glo-plug they can't/won't work on it as spares are virtually impossible to get hold of.

It would seem that getting it serviced(if possible) may be throwing good money after bad - Nature's way of telling me to replace it?

I would appreciate any recommendations as to make / model and a ball-park figure for supply and fit (if known).

Thanks all

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12 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

I have a Mikuni MX40 which has packed up. Not sure if it's serious or not but the two people I have spoken to about both said that if it isn't the glo-plug they can't/won't work on it as spares are virtually impossible to get hold of.

It would seem that getting it serviced(if possible) may be throwing good money after bad - Nature's way of telling me to replace it?

I would appreciate any recommendations as to make / model and a ball-park figure for supply and fit (if known).

Thanks all

Aren't MV heating still in business?

Their website is atill active -

https://mvheating.co.uk/mikuni-mx40/

 

Always very helpful to me - but mine hasn't broken down for ages...

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I have had both Webasto and Eberspacher and Ebers have always performed 'better' and seem to be a bit better built.

I've not bought a new one for many years so things may have changed.

 

I currently have an Eber, and despite many comments on this forum advising my error, It goes on when we go onto the boat and is turned off when we leave. It controls itself on the thermostat and cycles 'at will'.

 

Supposedly it should have died a long time ago, or, at best, be totally 'choked-up' with carbon.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I currently have an Eber, and despite many comments on this forum advising my error, It goes on when we go onto the boat and is turned off when we leave. It controls itself on the thermostat and cycles 'at will'.

 

Supposedly it should have died a long time ago, or, at best, be totally 'choked-up' with carbon.

 

The "dry" air heaters like yours are completely different beasts to the "wet" ones.

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The "dry" air heaters like yours are completely different beasts to the "wet" ones.

 

 

Yes, current cruiser is a 'blown air heater' but I also did exactly the same with the 'water' heater Ebers on the NB.

 

Photo of the last NB with 'radiators'

 

 

 

Table Storage.jpg

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42 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

As it’s not clear if you intend replacing exhaust system etc it’s hard to say, have a browse on this site and their technical library is excellent.

 

https://www.butlertechnik.com/marine-heater-kits-c55/water-heaters-c60

No idea if I have to replace exhaust system - would changing from the Mikuni to Ebersapcher/Webasto mean I have to?

Thanks for the link

43 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Aren't MV heating still in business?

Their website is atill active -

https://mvheating.co.uk/mikuni-mx40/

 

Always very helpful to me - but mine hasn't broken down for ages...

A lot of the spares seem out of stock, but only really going on what I was told, obsolete model (?) no spares etc etc

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I gave up repairing Mikuni heaters years ago, horrible things to work on, control boards with under-rated relays, screws that either shear off or strip their threads, gaskets that fall apart no matter how careful you are.

And the company that imports them really don't care tuppence.

 

However if the glow plug is not the problem its likely to be the relay on the PCB, Mikuni uprated them but always denied that the original one was not up to the job.

Check the plug. if its got continuity, see if you get 12v across it when its firing up. If no, bet its the relay. The fan motor is not 12v from memory but 10v, weird thing.

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have had both Webasto and Eberspacher and Ebers have always performed 'better' and seem to be a bit better built.

I've not bought a new one for many years so things may have changed.

 

I currently have an Eber, and despite many comments on this forum advising my error, It goes on when we go onto the boat and is turned off when we leave. It controls itself on the thermostat and cycles 'at will'.

 

Supposedly it should have died a long time ago, or, at best, be totally 'choked-up' with carbon.

 

I think the coking up was exacerbated when gas oil (red diesel) used to be a lower quality than road diesel.

 

Since the compulsory introduction of ultra low sulphur diesel, the refineries found it cheaper to dye road diesel red, rather than produce the traditional gas oil in an ultra low sulphur version.

 

The use of dyed road diesel had significantly reduced coking in both my Webasto and my Kabola Old Dutch oil drip stove.

 

 

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On 19/03/2021 at 17:08, Tracy D'arth said:

I gave up repairing Mikuni heaters years ago, horrible things to work on, control boards with under-rated relays, screws that either shear off or strip their threads, gaskets that fall apart no matter how careful you are.

And the company that imports them really don't care tuppence.

 

However if the glow plug is not the problem its likely to be the relay on the PCB, Mikuni uprated them but always denied that the original one was not up to the job.

Check the plug. if its got continuity, see if you get 12v across it when its firing up. If no, bet its the relay. The fan motor is not 12v from memory but 10v, weird thing.

Thanks Tracy - I don't have the knowledge to analyse / fix the problem, but someone is going to look at it next week, but he was one of the people who won't really go much beyond a glo-plug issue.

I will pass on what you have said about the relay.

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On 19/03/2021 at 16:29, Tony Brooks said:

Did we not learn a few months ago that there is a new smaller pressure jet Webasto that attracted a few favourable comments?

I'd be very interested if that is the case as the only marine pressure jet water heater I'm aware of is the Hurricane.

 

 

 

My experience of the Webasto Thermo Top water heater is it works very well as along as attention is paid to the air inlet and exhaust. Too long and/or too many bends and it causes problems such as incomplete burn and faster soot build up. Don't ask me how I know. However, the jet engine noise the damn thing makes is something I'll never get used to.

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50 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

I'd be very interested if that is the case as the only marine pressure jet water heater I'm aware of is the Hurricane.

 

 

 

My experience of the Webasto Thermo Top water heater is it works very well as along as attention is paid to the air inlet and exhaust. Too long and/or too many bends and it causes problems such as incomplete burn and faster soot build up. Don't ask me how I know. However, the jet engine noise the damn thing makes is something I'll never get used to.

 

The news about the new Webasto came from @NMEA not so long ago and I think others who seem to know have referred to it.

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31 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

I'll look forward to hearing more about it in due course. At present the first and only thing I've heard about this is here.

 

The new Eberspacher one is the HS3 D4E/D5E which goes down to 1.3kW and can be controlled by a room thermostat, I don't know if there's a Webasto equivalent for narrowboats...

 

http://www.espar.co.uk/EsparPlymouthProducts_NarrowBoatHeating.htm

https://www.eberspacher.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters/water-heating/hydronic-4

https://www.eberspacher.com/fileadmin/data/countrysites/EB_UK/pdf_files/info_pdf_ebuk/heating_pdf_ebuk/marine_heating_uk_22375.pdf

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19 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Maybe thats the one I was thinking of because I tend to Link MNEA to Webasto in my mind.

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34 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Maybe thats the one I was thinking of because I tend to Link MNEA to Webasto in my mind.

Webasto Thermo Top Evo goes down to 1.8kW@0.22l/hr compared to 1.3kW@0.15l/hr for the Eberspacher. 1.8kW is a bit high if you want to use it just for hot water in summer, 1.3kW should be OK with a calorifier (radiators turned off).

 

 

Edited by IanD
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31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

But for a short run to heat the caloriifer and then odd until later in the day and another short run should be OK

sort run

I don't know if the heating coils inside most calorifiers are long enough to absorb 1.8kW, maybe somebody actually knows this?

 

If they're not then the return water to the heater will be too hot and it will shut down before the water in the calorifier is hot.

 

Eberspacher say that their heater can be used like this (calorifier only), Webasto don't. Which doesn't mean the Webasto *won't* work used like this, just they don't say that it *will*...

 

 

Edited by IanD
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I can conform that the new Eber HS3 (as per my old post someone embedded above) does require the dedicated exhaust it is supplied with due to a different internal diameter. It is under the back cabin floor which is immediately outside the bedroom door. I'm a light sleeper and it doesn't wake me up. It is not recommended to run it with a programmer as per the information from the supplier (Espar). If you're considering this model, speak to them. They are  a wealth of knowledge and extremely helpful. However, unlike most others, they DO recommend to fit thermostatic valves to the radiators as it will cycle down. It is also designed to heat only the calorifier by isolating the heating circuit. I was also told during it's development by an award winning boatbuilder on the GU that it is far superior technologically than it's Webasto counterpart.

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The HS3 D4E looks interesting, and a better proposition than the Webasto Thermo Top because heat output is stepless all the way down to 1.3KW but it still uses an evaporator plate not a pressure jet, unlike the Hurricane (which is twice the price).

 

The question I have is, can the HS3 D4E withstand the rigour of full time liveaboard use?

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

The HS3 D4E looks interesting, and a better proposition than the Webasto Thermo Top because heat output is stepless all the way down to 1.3KW but it still uses an evaporator plate not a pressure jet, unlike the Hurricane (which is twice the price).

 

The question I have is, can the HS3 D4E withstand the rigour of full time liveaboard use?

 

 

If I could afford it, I'd go for the Hurricane although you'll still find negative comments as with anything. I lived aboard for 17 years until 3 yrs ago and now part-time (on a regular basis). I've had Webastos, Ebers' Mikuni etc. I cannot imagine that my HS3 wold not prove reliable for full time use. I think the service interval is 3000 hours and it appears to sip diesel. As mentioned, speak/email the guys at Espar. I have no connection with them other than as a customer and drove them nuts with questions prior, during and after purchase. The only real nuance was due to the different exhaust diameter, we had to replace the existing skin fitting with the supplied part which was awkward. They (Espar) were adamant that this run must not be reduced or it wold invalidate the Eberspacher warranty. They were also adamant not to put an inline fuel filter and just rely on the small gauze at the entry to the pump. I did initially want a wall mounted thermostat/programmer but they can't be used with the HS3 (4 or 5). However, the controller/programmer it comes with (Easy start pro) is a great bit of kit and I can just control the temp with the TRV's. They're now also offering an app controlled option. You're welcome to come and have a look/listen once we're set free if you can get to Harefield. I'll be in the Braunston area towards the end of June all going well. I Hope this helps.

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36 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

If I could afford it, I'd go for the Hurricane although you'll still find negative comments as with anything. I lived aboard for 17 years until 3 yrs ago and now part-time (on a regular basis). I've had Webastos, Ebers' Mikuni etc. I cannot imagine that my HS3 wold not prove reliable for full time use. I think the service interval is 3000 hours and it appears to sip diesel. As mentioned, speak/email the guys at Espar. I have no connection with them other than as a customer and drove them nuts with questions prior, during and after purchase. The only real nuance was due to the different exhaust diameter, we had to replace the existing skin fitting with the supplied part which was awkward. They (Espar) were adamant that this run must not be reduced or it wold invalidate the Eberspacher warranty. They were also adamant not to put an inline fuel filter and just rely on the small gauze at the entry to the pump. I did initially want a wall mounted thermostat/programmer but they can't be used with the HS3 (4 or 5). However, the controller/programmer it comes with (Easy start pro) is a great bit of kit and I can just control the temp with the TRV's. They're now also offering an app controlled option. You're welcome to come and have a look/listen once we're set free if you can get to Harefield. I'll be in the Braunston area towards the end of June all going well. I Hope this helps.

The HS3 D4E certainly seems to be a step above the Webasto Thermo Top (the only diesel heater I've used) so I'm viewing it as halfway between a Webasto and a Hurricane (at twice the price). I have a concern about the noise though. The Thermo Top sounds like a jet engine spooling up. I would hope to install something quieter - for my sake and that of anyone I'm moored next to. I haven't heard a Hurricane (the heater, not the plane) or a HS3 D4E. Thanks for the offer to look/listen to yours when we're allowed out into the playground again. I'm in Milton Keynes but happy to travel (when legally allowed, officer) to either Harefield or Braunston or somewhere in-between. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the government doesn't announce another excuse, sorry, variant, to keep us locked up for longer...

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55 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

The HS3 D4E certainly seems to be a step above the Webasto Thermo Top (the only diesel heater I've used) so I'm viewing it as halfway between a Webasto and a Hurricane (at twice the price). I have a concern about the noise though. The Thermo Top sounds like a jet engine spooling up. I would hope to install something quieter - for my sake and that of anyone I'm moored next to. I haven't heard a Hurricane (the heater, not the plane) or a HS3 D4E. Thanks for the offer to look/listen to yours when we're allowed out into the playground again. I'm in Milton Keynes but happy to travel (when legally allowed, officer) to either Harefield or Braunston or somewhere in-between. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the government doesn't announce another excuse, sorry, variant, to keep us locked up for longer...

You'll see from my previous posts how I've harped on about how quiet the HS3 is. Hurricane's are quite noisy apparently. The Thermo Top C was like a jet engine in comparison to the HS3.

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Thanks to all who have replied with their help and advice. I think I shall be going down the Eberspacher route.

 

Sorry to crowbar this into this thread, but can the diesel heater be used to heat the hot water tank without heating the radiators? In the Summer obviously won't be needing the rads but is running the engine the only way to get hot water? I was just wondering what happens when you are moored up for a few days

 

Thanks again

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