Bad experience blacking at Marina

[GRLMK38]

Surely if boatyards are doing poor work you can challenge them?  The table below is for Intertuf 16 (other blacking products are available!) https://www.international-marine.com/product/intertuf-16

 

If you experience failed blacking, can the boatyard prove they followed the manufacturers instructions? If not, they should redo the work at their expense shouldn't they?

 

What records do they keep?  Did they record the temperature and humidity during the work?  The equipment for this is cheap so there is no excuse for not doing it.

 

 

[blackrose]

Last time I blacked my widebeam it was out for a week and my routine was:

 

Day 1: pressure wash.

Day 2: go around with angle grinder/wire wheels taking off loose paint & rust and sweep off the dust 

Day 3: Two coats of quick driving Primicon underwater primer.

Days 4-6: Three coats of blacking.

 

But I've moved on since then. I got rid of all the blacking and now use two pack epoxy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by blackrose

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, JamesFrance said:

There is Aqueduct and Venetian, or possibly Barbridge.   I am in one of them so hoping not the one referred to.

 

https://www.aqueductmarina.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021-Hull-blacking-PDF.pdf

 

On a 55ft boat their Premium blacking would be exactly £891 ...

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

https://www.aqueductmarina.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021-Hull-blacking-PDF.pdf

 

On a 55ft boat their Premium blacking would be exactly £891 ...

 

 

 

 

[GRLMK38]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

https://www.aqueductmarina.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021-Hull-blacking-PDF.pdf

 

On a 55ft boat their Premium blacking would be exactly £891 ...

 

 

 

That's called "standard" where I come from.  Not sure how the curing time of 7 days has has been calculated?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Dave_P said:

Depends on your definition of a proper boatyard.  The bad experience I described above was very much at a very well established and very highly regarded boatyard.  Try ringing round a few and you'll find that friday to friday is very much the exception rather than the rule these days.  Mosty boatyards just want you in and out as quickly as possible.  Why do one boat a week when you can do three?

Lots seem to do a 3 the 4 day turn round in the summer months

Northwich Dry Dock is 7 days

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, GRLMK38 said:

 

That's called "standard" where I come from.  Not sure how the curing time of 7 days has has been calculated?

 

Maybe they open the tin when the boat comes out of the water? 

 

I've never really understood the idea of painting wood preservative on steel boats anyway ...

[GRLMK38]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Maybe they open the tin when the boat comes out of the water? 

 

I've never really understood the idea of painting wood preservative on steel boats anyway ...

 

Weren't boats made from wood before steel became the norm?  Has nobody told the painter?

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, GRLMK38 said:

 

Weren't boats made from wood before steel became the norm?  Has nobody told the painter?

 

Wood preservative on a wooden boat makes perfect sense.  There's a lot of bitumen getting splodged on steel boats though, usually at the customer's request or indeed by the owner personally.

 

 

 

 

[Tim Lewis]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well they wouldn't saty in business very long if they relied on my business. I've neve had a problem finding a 7-day blacking yard.

 

One of the best being :

Undercover, you can stay on board, shoreline hook-up, water, toilets and any work done that you want.

 

 

 

 

£50/day

Fully enclosed

Heated

Three phase electricity 

Mechanically ventilated

on site welder

can stay on board

workshop

toilets, shower and kitchen

free use of powerful pressure washer

 

http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Tim Lewis

[GRLMK38]

11 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

£50/day

Fully enclosed

Heated

Three phase electricity 

Mechanically ventilated

on site welder

can stay on board

workshop

toilets, shower and kitchen

free use of powerful pressure washer

 

http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

 

 

What about the £200 haul out fee? I have always worked on the basis that the real cost is £200 + (6 x £50) for the first week plus some VAT (website is ambiguos).  Nice dock though.

[Sea Dog]

13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Wood preservative on a wooden boat makes perfect sense.  There's a lot of bitumen getting splodged on steel boats though, usually at the customer's request or indeed by the owner personally.

 

 

 

 

Can't beat a good splodging! Soon, when the woman in charge says we can (not my missus, that other one who is shacked up in Downing Street with the scruffy disgraced journalist with all the 'oven ready' ideas), I intend to be a splodger again myself!

[Tim Lewis]

48 minutes ago, GRLMK38 said:

 

What about the £200 haul out fee? I have always worked on the basis that the real cost is £200 + (6 x £50) for the first week plus some VAT (website is ambiguos).  Nice dock though.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Tim Lewis

[Grassman]

A couple of years ago we were in a well known reputable marina having some work done. We watched them pull a narrowboat out for blacking on the Sunday and spoke to the liveaboard owners who were just leaving to stay 5 nights in a hotel until the boat was ready the following Saturday.

 

At 8am the next day (Monday) the hull was jet washed, they applied the first coat of blacking a couple of hours later, and the second coat at about 4pm. First thing the next morning (Tuesday) it was back in the water and the next boat was pulled out to be done.

 

I was shocked, as prior to seeing this I'd have happily trusted them to have done my blacking. I'm glad I never did!

[NB Alnwick]

There are rogues in every sphere of business! The waterways are just the same . . .

[Bee]

Seems to be some poor workmanship around and from some proper companies too. In fact it seems that if you don't keep a careful eye on what is happening then you can expect trouble. There is an onus on owners to know a bit more about hull work, paint systems, preparation and boring stuff like that and also to make sure that if they are paying for 5 or 7 days to turn up and see if the boat has actually been put back in the water after 3. I had our boat hauled out in a French yard, did the work myself, returned home for a week or two then asked if they could return it to the water so we could just hop on, start the engine and go. Non! We had to be there when it went back in. Probably different if they had done the work but having seen their own employees working on boats I reckon they were doing it properly. Others can no doubt tell different tales but it seems that there is a lot of sharp practice from yards and a ready supply of honest and trusting owners. Not a good combination.

[Norm55]

Mine is being done next week and not too far away from OP.   Been told, into dry dock first thing Monday back in water noon Thursday. Its a dry dock with space heaters but should i challenge their time scale?  

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Norm55 said:

Mine is being done next week and not too far away from OP.   Been told, into dry dock first thing Monday back in water noon Thursday. Its a dry dock with space heaters but should i challenge their time scale?  

 

Probably its too late now, if that is "what they do" and you have committed to them, then that is what'll you'll get. They may well have another boat booked in for Thursday.

Maybe now you are 'better armed' you could find a 7-day provider for next time.

 

Its a bit like buying a pint of milk and then complaining it isn't 1/2 litre.

 

3 Days is not really sufficient, but being heated will assist in the drying times.

Monday = wash down, scrape and grind, prep.

Tuesday = morning one coat, afternoon another coat. (if they are heating the dock)

Wednesday = 'drying day'

Thursday = back into the water.

 

Personally I go for 3 coats and a day of brush- touching up the fiddly areas (inside weed hatch tube, strakes, corners and edges, rudder etc)

[peterboat]

Since the application of Zinga its been an easy job, boat gets steam cleaned as soon as the dock is drained, zinga repaired where needed and 3 coats of keelblack applied one after the other, its sprayed on so takes 45 minutes for a 57 x 12 boat.

All other work is done blacking has days to dry, Its a covered dry dock and I do the job in the summer

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Norm55 said:

Mine is being done next week and not too far away from OP.   Been told, into dry dock first thing Monday back in water noon Thursday. Its a dry dock with space heaters but should i challenge their time scale?  

A lot of yards work on that timing

[stagedamager]

We allow 7 days at Langley Mill, and like to think we do a proper job, without cutting corners. If anything goes wrong we would not hesitate to put it right at our expense.

[Bee]

So many variables. If you read the instructions on paint (and anything else to be honest) its damned hard to achieve many of the requirements.  Most of the stuff that I have used recommends spray painting - preferably airless whatever that is and brushing or rolling if you really must.  As for grit / bead/ sand /water blasting - no chance. If you give a bucket of paint each to two people one will do the whole side of a boat, the other will get halfway along the other side before the paint goes off and is useless. The timing for the second and subsequent coats matters and varies with temperature (and wind) and if you can manage clean, dry, warm, three coats, underneath too, two days to dry then that is pretty good, many yards just give a pressure wash, slap a coat on a dryish hull no matter what the weather is and bung it back in the water. Try to keep an eye on things if you can.

[Tim Lewis]

On 19/03/2021 at 08:29, GRLMK38 said:

 

What about the £200 haul out fee? I have always worked on the basis that the real cost is £200 + (6 x £50) for the first week plus some VAT (website is ambiguos).  Nice dock though.

You of course right. 
 

As moorers  there we get a free docking every three years so have never had to pay the full cost, just the consumables 

[GRLMK38]

16 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

You of course right. 
 

As moorers  there we get a free docking every three years so have never had to pay the full cost, just the consumables 

A useful perk...

 

At £500 per week, for me it works out at £8/ft.  Then there is £1/ft for paint.  That puts it at the same price as I pay for an equivalent blacking service with a credible boatyard. 

 

Good ROI for the canal society though with an annual income at c.£25000.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, GRLMK38 said:

 

Good ROI for the canal society though with an annual income at c.£25000.

Actually b*** all income for the canal society, since the majority of the dock users are the moorers making use of their free docking. There was a commercial boat painter making use of the dry and wet docks, which did bring some income to the society, but they have now retired.