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Simple boat sale documents and procedures


pedroinlondon

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3 minutes ago, Ianws said:

It isn't essential but a couple of recent threads have shown it may be useful to have a witness signature on the bill of sale if that's possible. 

I just saw Martin C had already mentioned a witness signature

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4 hours ago, pedroinlondon said:

Wow. I did know know about that. 

Well if he published his details on the paper, and being a wealthy and well known person, I suppose he posed a challenge to the best hacking minds all over the globe. 

Scary stuff.

Doesn't need to involve hacking, it's just a direct debit to a charity. If anyone writes you a cheque (for any amount) you have all the details necessary to donate £500 a month to the CRT from their bank account using the name and numbers written at the bottom of a cheque. 

 

But direct debits are protected by guarantee, so if they complain about being billed they get their money back, and the average person has no entitlement to receive Direct Debits so they can't enrich themselves with that fraud. 

.

 

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Something like this? This is really an adaptation of my friend's document I included on my first post here.

Please feel free to suggest corrections.

As the moving of the boat is post-contract and a courtesy agreed verbally, should the paragraph where it is mentioned be completely removed for the sake of simplicity?

Thanks

20210308_192529.jpg.3228ac89249674e787b462594fb9534f.jpg

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2 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Something like this? This is really an adaptation of my friend's document I included on my first post here.

Please feel free to suggest corrections.

As the moving of the boat is post-contract and a courtesy agreed verbally, should the paragraph where it is mentioned be completely removed for the sake of simplicity?

Thanks

20210308_192529.jpg.3228ac89249674e787b462594fb9534f.jpg

I am no expert by any means but if it were me I would prefer Bridge........ on the ............. canal/waterway/river (put in which is most appropriate to the move.)

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All contracts of sale governed by English law need to have the transfer of title conditional on receipt of full payment. Common law transfers title on delivery and if you don't get paid you are stuffed. Don't ask how I know.

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16 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

What goes in can go out. I would move the money immediately from my bank account to another account with another bank

I used the RYA bill of sale, adapted to my system of payments. I had the buyers name and address on  Bill of Sale.

ditchcrawler is correct wrt 'cheques', which can be removed even after appeating in your account, not sure about bank transfers.

You must contact your bank if you wish to transfer moneys, they do not like things that look like money laundering.

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If you are going to include Length and Beam I would prefix the actual figures with "approx. ...".  They probably won't be exactly as specified when built, and you don't want any comeback if the buyer can't subsequently get through a lock or bridge hole somewhere.

 

It isn't "British Waterways Index Number" any more.

 

I am not a lawyer but "... laws of the Country of England" is an odd phraseology, and only shows up online in a single website generating bills of sale!   Something like "laws of England and Wales" would be more common. 

 

You need a space for the signatures of both Buyer and Seller.

 

I think it is common to also have the name and address of any witness, rather than just a signature.  And if they are witnessing both signatures then all 3 of you need to meet - you can't do it by email.

 

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1 minute ago, Cheese said:

If you are going to include Length and Beam I would prefix the actual figures with "approx. ...".  They probably won't be exactly as specified when built, and you don't want any comeback if the buyer can't subsequently get through a lock or bridge hole somewhere.

 

It isn't "British Waterways Index Number" any more.

 

I am not a lawyer but "... laws of the Country of England" is an odd phraseology, and only shows up online in a single website generating bills of sale!   Something like "laws of England and Wales" would be more common. 

 

You need a space for the signatures of both Buyer and Seller.

 

I think it is common to also have the name and address of any witness, rather than just a signature.  And if they are witnessing both signatures then all 3 of you need to meet - you can't do it by email.

 

I have signed a legal document (deed) recently where each person signed and had witnessed separately, and then when both copies were put together they formed (in effect) a single document. Not sure how this would work for a contract.

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1 minute ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have signed a legal document (deed) recently where each person signed and had witnessed separately, and then when both copies were put together they formed (in effect) a single document. Not sure how this would work for a contract.

 

That is 'fine', and the best way to do it, a witness simply witnesses one signature, in the example Cheese gave, it was a single witness witnessing both signatures, so unless the witness travelled from A (buyer) to B (seller) then he couldn't actually witness both signatures (or both buyer and seller meet with the witness).

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is 'fine', and the best way to do it, a witness simply witnesses one signature, in the example Cheese gave, it was a single witness witnessing both signatures, so unless the witness travelled from A (buyer) to B (seller) then he couldn't actually witness both signatures (or both buyer and seller meet with the witness).

That was the original plan. The seller said he'll meet me at his bank to do the transfer so I thought we could have one person to witness the signatures too.

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22 minutes ago, Cheese said:

If you are going to include Length and Beam I would prefix the actual figures with "approx. ...".  They probably won't be exactly as specified when built, and you don't want any comeback if the buyer can't subsequently get through a lock or bridge hole somewhere.

 

It isn't "British Waterways Index Number" any more.

 

I am not a lawyer but "... laws of the Country of England" is an odd phraseology, and only shows up online in a single website generating bills of sale!   Something like "laws of England and Wales" would be more common. 

 

You need a space for the signatures of both Buyer and Seller.

 

I think it is common to also have the name and address of any witness, rather than just a signature.  And if they are witnessing both signatures then all 3 of you need to meet - you can't do it by email.

 

Crikey this is so bloody complicated!! I'll think I'll start again, using the RYA template instead.

Thanks Cheese

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37 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I have signed a legal document (deed) recently where each person signed and had witnessed separately, and then when both copies were put together they formed (in effect) a single document. Not sure how this would work for a contract.

Common practice in my experience, as long as the document states that it can be signed in counterparts and the counterparts, taken together, comprise the agreement.

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19 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

Crikey this is so bloody complicated!! I'll think I'll start again, using the RYA template instead.

 

There's a lot to be said for getting the boat over to the buyer's side of London in advance, and swapping the keys and a standard RYA bill of sale for the money transfer while you are both in the bank.

 

It saves all the complication from both sides.

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

There's a lot to be said for getting the boat over to the buyer's side of London in advance, and swapping the keys and a standard RYA bill of sale for the money transfer while you are both in the bank.

 

It saves all the complication from both sides.

I won't include the getting the boat over. As that will be a favour it will not be mentioned in the contract after all.

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22 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Doesn't need to involve hacking, it's just a direct debit to a charity. If anyone writes you a cheque (for any amount) you have all the details necessary to donate £500 a month to the CRT from their bank account using the name and numbers written at the bottom of a cheque. 

 

But direct debits are protected by guarantee, so if they complain about being billed they get their money back, and the average person has no entitlement to receive Direct Debits so they can't enrich themselves with that fraud. 

.

 

Indeed. I just realised that in the UK, unlike in other countries, the Banks are responsible to cover for most frauds. I suppose if their customers make it too easy then they would not have to.

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is 'fine', and the best way to do it, a witness simply witnesses one signature, in the example Cheese gave, it was a single witness witnessing both signatures, so unless the witness travelled from A (buyer) to B (seller) then he couldn't actually witness both signatures (or both buyer and seller meet with the witness).

We're meeting for the bank transfer but the clerks are not allowed to witness signatures and we don't know anyone else in the area.

Being London one can't just know of random doors or even walk in a shop and ask for a signature and address :)

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I feel like I'm buying a small or medium sized country rather than selling a boat :( with all this paper and banking stuff

I wonder is there would be this much fuss if I tried to sell Cyprus or even Belgium to an American tourist...

Edited by pedroinlondon
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So please read this version. I took it from the RYA template. I'm sure they meant "Transferee" and not "Transferor" the second time. https://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/legal/Web Documents/Legal Leaflets/Members Advice/Bill of Sale/BILL OF SALE.pdf

 

Many thanks for all your help. I ended up learning stuff about banking I had no idea about.

20210309_174645[1].jpg

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