The Paddle Gear Thread (formerly Cheshire Paddle Gear)

[Ray T]

17 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Another couple of different paddles - this time from Hawkesbury 

 

First, one of the ground paddles at the lock.

 

 

Ground paddle at the other end.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Ray T

[magpie patrick]

Farmers Bridge - simple and solid. I was about to describe this as typical BCN but then I remembered that I posted gear from the Tame Valley which is also BCN but is rather different. 

[magpie patrick]

Just spotted these whiolst researching a possible (in my dreams!) trip to see some canals in the USA - Swamp Locks, Lowell National Historical Park, Lowell, Mass

 

It appears the spiked wheel turns cogs that in turn open a rotating valve in the gate.... I've seen the valve in the gate elsewhere, but tno this method of opening them!

 

 

[Derek R.]

You'd have a job sticking one of those in your belt!

 

I'm thinking the star wheel turns a shaft with worm gear on the end, connected to the large horizontal gear. That when turned, turns the vertical shaft and another spiral gear connected to the sluice which is thereby lifted. Complicated, and vulnerable.

Ah - no - a 'rotating' paddle, Da Vinci style.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Derek R.

[Pluto]

The Conca dell' Incoranata in Milan, though they don't seem to have discovered how the paddles were operated when it was restored.

[magpie patrick]

43 minutes ago, Pluto said:

The Conca dell' Incoranata in Milan, though they don't seem to have discovered how the paddles were operated when it was restored.

 In theory you could operate them by holding them closed with a pin and removing the pin - if the swivel were off centre water pressure would open them. However getting them closed again before a level made would be "interesting..."

[magpie patrick]

An interesting one - bottom gates of Fairfield Top Lock on the Ashton Canal - I walked from Guide Bridge to Manchester Piccadilly along the canal today. 

 

Hydraulic gate gear dating from the restoration and uprights for ground paddles that are no longer used and I suspect haven't been used for many a long year.

 

Fairfield Locks also have a second redundant chamber alongside - they were paired at one point. The lower redundant chamber had some evidence of having once had bottom ground paddles but not of the other locks did. The evidence could have been lost in rebuilding of course. 

 

I'll probably do a thread on locks of the Ashton when I get a moment

[ditchcrawler]

55 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

An interesting one - bottom gates of Fairfield Top Lock on the Ashton Canal - I walked from Guide Bridge to Manchester Piccadilly along the canal today. 

 

Hydraulic gate gear dating from the restoration and uprights for ground paddles that are no longer used and I suspect haven't been used for many a long year.

 

Fairfield Locks also have a second redundant chamber alongside - they were paired at one point. The lower redundant chamber had some evidence of having once had bottom ground paddles but not of the other locks did. The evidence could have been lost in rebuilding of course. 

 

I'll probably do a thread on locks of the Ashton when I get a moment

I see from the stoppage list one lock has just popped it cill

[magpie patrick]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I see from the stoppage list one lock has just popped it cill

Yes, this one...

 

I took the photos whilst trying to help a crew fill it...

[JCO]

One for Magpie Patrick,

A couple of years ago there was a thread on the Glamorganshire Canal, discussing the North Road bridge by Cardiff Castle and the paddle gear.

Not the best pic, but does it help?

JCO

 

[magpie patrick]

On 14/04/2023 at 18:45, JCO said:

One for Magpie Patrick,

A couple of years ago there was a thread on the Glamorganshire Canal, discussing the North Road bridge by Cardiff Castle and the paddle gear.

Not the best pic, but does it help?

JCO

 

 

 

Sorry, I've only just spotted this!

 

I used to live in Cardiff, but it's a few years since I've been back and even more since I last saw this. I noticed the paddle gear but had never looked at it in detail. That gear is quite distinctive and doesn't seem to belong on any other canal, so it's probably from the Glamorgan Canal. I don't know of any other surviving gear to compare it with.

 

Thanks!  

[magpie patrick]

Not my photos, but just to show someone can always find a different way. 

 

Fox River Navigation, Wisconsin - the historic navigation is in process of being restored and these photos were taken before work started on one of the locks. Three ground paddles side by side opening valves on the floor above the top gates. 

[ditchcrawler]

May have been mentioned but wwe have just done the Upper Avon and the paddle gear looks very French

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

May have been mentioned but wwe have just done the Upper Avon and the paddle gear looks very French

ISTR that French paddle gear was acquired from VNF when the upper Avon was restored - not sure how much of it survives in France now as many locks that used it have been mechanised 

[John Brightley]

6 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

May have been mentioned but wwe have just done the Upper Avon and the paddle gear looks very French

Yes, you're correct, some are French, and at least one has its manufacturers plate still in place (I noticed it when we came up the Avon the day before we met you last week). Unfortunately I didn't take a photo but I think it is on one of the locks between Welford and Stratford. I think from memory there was a date on the plate which was about 1993. I was surprised about the late date as it was well after the lock was originally restored.

Edited August 7, 2023 by John Brightley

[ditchcrawler]

41 minutes ago, John Brightley said:

Yes, you're correct, some are French, and at least one has its manufacturers plate still in place (I noticed it when we came up the Avon the day before we met you last week). Unfortunately I didn't take a photo but I think it is on one of the locks between Welford and Stratford. I think from memory there was a date on the plate which was about 1993. I was surprised about the late date as it was well after the lock was originally restored.

I wish I had looked closer now

[Pluto]

13 hours ago, John Brightley said:

Yes, you're correct, some are French, and at least one has its manufacturers plate still in place (I noticed it when we came up the Avon the day before we met you last week). Unfortunately I didn't take a photo but I think it is on one of the locks between Welford and Stratford. I think from memory there was a date on the plate which was about 1993. I was surprised about the late date as it was well after the lock was originally restored.

I would suspect from the Canal d'Ille et Rance, which still has wooden gates.

[magpie patrick]

Northwich paddle gear miles from home - acting to open a relief sluice on the Neath Canal just above Lock Machin, the canal is owned by St Modwens, so how they got one of these I do not know 

[TheBiscuits]

52 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Northwich paddle gear miles from home -  ... so how they got one of these I do not know 

 

 

Simple theft? 😁

[IanM]

On 07/08/2023 at 22:05, John Brightley said:

I was surprised about the late date as it was well after the lock was originally restored.

When originally restored they used second hand Thames lock gates. The steel gates and French paddle gear came later. 

[Pluto]

21 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Northwich paddle gear miles from home - acting to open a relief sluice on the Neath Canal just above Lock Machin, the canal is owned by St Modwens, so how they got one of these I do not know 

I am pretty certain CRT have patterns for the SUC cast iron parts which they may have lent to the Neath Canal project. The base looks brand new to me.

[Jonny P]

On 28/05/2022 at 19:03, magpie patrick said:

Farmers Bridge - simple and solid. I was about to describe this as typical BCN but then I remembered that I posted gear from the Tame Valley which is also BCN but is rather different. 

Following @Charlielamus reports of lots of variation in BCN locks I thought I’d do a bit of research because it initially seemed at odds with the fact that the BCN had its own design of paddle gear that is not only prevalent on the BCN but has been adopted for other canals that never were part of the BCN.

 

However it turns out that the Birmingham & Fazeley has its own design of ground paddle without the additional gearing of a standard BCN paddle. I can’t find an example of this paddle elsewhere.

 

I suspect that originally all 44 B&F locks were configured as per the photo of Farmers Bridge no. 1 above.

 

As of today 39 of the 44 locks are configured in this way albeit one (Farmers Bridge no. 11) has the tail gate hung from the offside; which may be an original feature but I suspect not.

 

There is no evidence of a similar style gate paddle and of the five locks that currently have paddles on the tail gates there are two (Aston no. 10 and Minworth no. 2) that have BCN pattern gate paddles and three (Curdworth nos. 2,8 and 9) that have a modern style with supports made from steel plate and angle.

 

I suspect all these five locks have been modified but this is only obvious in the case of Aston no. 10 which also has its tail gate hung from the offside.

 

Reasons for the difference in the gate paddles could be a boundary between maintenance areas in more recent times.

 

Some locks also once had gate paddles in the tail gates in addition to the ground paddles and the last of these (Curdworth 5, 6 and 7) have been removed in the past 20 years. These were a modern type paddle and unlikely to have been an original feature.

 

Elsewhere on the BCN it appears the standard BCN paddle mechanism is used on every other paddle albeit with some variation on how they are mounted and configured.

 

I’ll save that for another post but I wonder if any of the regulars with knowledge of the BCN ( @Heartland @David Mack@5239 @Rob-M and others) can shed any further light on the Birmingham & Fazeley locks.

 

Edited March 31 by Jonny P

[Charlielamus]

Fabulous research @Jonny P! Thanks.

[David Mack]

14 minutes ago, Jonny P said:

 

I don't have any data, but my perception is that there used to be a lot more paddles like this with the spindle cog operating directly on the rack and no intermediate gearing, particularly back in the day when there were a lot more wooden paddle posts for ground paddles. I can remember my mother finding them stiff to operate and my Dad having to take over. Then in the 70s the hydraulic paddle gear became common, and for all its faults, it was easier to wind. I suspect that in more recent years BW/CRT have more or less standardised on geared paddles when installing new, for ease of user operation, so the ungeared paddles only remain where the older (usually cast iron) paddle posts have survived.

[Jonny P]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

I don't have any data, but my perception is that there used to be a lot more paddles like this with the spindle cog operating directly on the rack and no intermediate gearing, particularly back in the day when there were a lot more wooden paddle posts for ground paddles. I can remember my mother finding them stiff to operate and my Dad having to take over. Then in the 70s the hydraulic paddle gear became common, and for all its faults, it was easier to wind. I suspect that in more recent years BW/CRT have more or less standardised on geared paddles when installing new, for ease of user operation, so the ungeared paddles only remain where the older (usually cast iron) paddle posts have survived.

 

That would explain why standard BCN paddles never infiltrated the B&F. There was no need.

 

One of the anomalies elsewhere on the BCN is that on the Wolverhampton 21 many ground paddles have wooden posts, albeit with the same mechanism as the more common cast iron paddle posts.

 

Standard BCN paddles appear to have replaced the wooden posts on many locks. Wolverhampton locks seem to have been built with the paddles on a significant incline which is perhaps one reason why the wooden posts still remain and those with standard BCN cast posts are possibly the result of rebuilding or partial rebuilding (some locks have a combination of wooden and cast iron posts).