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Composting toilet waste disposal in CaRT bins


IanD

Composting toilet waste disposal in CaRT bins  

88 members have voted

  1. 1. Should CaRT continue to allow non-composted human waste from composting toilets to be disposed of in their waste bins (previous CaRT policy) or ban it (updated CaRT policy)?

    • Yes, they should continue to allow this in future
      16
    • No, this should be prohibited in future
      57
    • I don't care
      15


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Just now, Jerra said:

I can't see how it can be categorically stated composting bins are a viable option unless somebody somewhere has full access to a costed business plan showing they are viable.

Correct. CaRT have pretty much said they can't find a solution though -- meaning one that would work, not get trashed by don't-care-binners, and they could afford.

 

And in spite of asking several times for suggestions on how to make this work, the combined might of the CWDF hivemind has been unable to come up with a way to make this work, in fact to the contrary it's come up with many reasons why it wouldn't.

 

Of course if you ask people if they want lower tax and better public services they'll say yes, but this isn't possible. You can't offer an option which would be popular but can't be delivered, and right now CaRT have said they can't do this.

 

So there are two choices -- carry on as now (old rules), or change (new rules). If you care strongly, vote for one or the other. If you don't care, vote that way.

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1 minute ago, Chagall said:

Actually to be pedantic you didn't ask, a question usually has a question mark after it?  

 

The bias is in the lengthy phrase "non-composted human waste from composting toilets to be disposed of in their waste bins"  the previous edict from CRT was that waste such as nappies (human faeces) can be left in the general waste bin suitably bagged. By laboriously tagging the words onto the poll it is skewing the result against composting toilet owners, and particularly those who do not properly compost.   The second part of the question (with no lengthy phraseology)  "or ban it" was again skewed to emotively guide those who have already voiced increasingly aggressive calls to ban it!  

 

Might I respectfully suggest adding to the poll another option in that ideas for a solution might be worth considering?  Just adding "I dont care" isn't particularly useful. 

Sorry but I don't see that as biased and I assumed a ban would include nappies.   They are after all recyclable and in this day and age everything that can be recycled should be.

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1 minute ago, IanD said:

Correct. CaRT have pretty much said they can't find a solution though -- meaning one that would work, not get trashed by don't-care-binners, and they could afford.

 

And in spite of asking several times for suggestions on how to make this work, the combined might of the CWDF hivemind has been unable to come up with a way to make this work, in fact to the contrary it's come up with many reasons why it wouldn't.

 

Of course if you ask people if they want lower tax and better public services they'll say yes, but this isn't possible. You can't offer an option which would be popular but can't be delivered, and right now CaRT have said they can't do this.

 

So there are two choices -- carry on as now (old rules), or change (new rules). If you care strongly, vote for one or the other. If you don't care, vote that way.

IMO if there were a composting system it would have to be mainly marina based.  There seem to be far more marina pump-outs than CRT ones.   For that to happen there has to be a viable i.e. cost effective system.  Unless there is it is pointless anybody saying composting bins are a viable alternative.   It would be brilliant if they were but until it is proved to be cost effective they aren't a viable alternative.

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4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

 I assumed a ban would include nappies.   They are after all recyclable

In what sense are modern disposable nappies recyclable? Used nappies will comprise a mix of plastics, the absorbent medium, wee and poo. How practically could you separate the various components for recycling/treatment?

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1 minute ago, IanD said:

Correct. CaRT have pretty much said they can't find a solution though -- meaning one that would work, not get trashed by don't-care-binners, and they could afford.

 

And in spite of asking several times for suggestions on how to make this work, the combined might of the CWDF hivemind has been unable to come up with a way to make this work, in fact to the contrary it's come up with many reasons why it wouldn't.

 

Of course if you ask people if they want lower tax and better public services they'll say yes, but this isn't possible. You can't offer an option which would be popular but can't be delivered, and right now CaRT have said they can't do this.

 

So there are two choices -- carry on as now (old rules), or change (new rules). If you care strongly, vote for one or the other. If you don't care, vote that way.

But they did not rule it out for the future, so why hand it to them now as only a choice of Yes or No ... there are choices and CRT themselves have said they eventually will pilot a scheme. Enforceable or not there are always more choices, you would prefer to only poll as two options which will inevitably lead it towards yours, and others, already stated desired result.  There I suggest is the bias. 

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20 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Actually to be pedantic you didn't ask, a question usually has a question mark after it?  

 

The bias is in the lengthy phrase "non-composted human waste from composting toilets to be disposed of in their waste bins"  the previous edict from CRT was that waste such as nappies (human faeces) can be left in the general waste bin suitably bagged. By laboriously tagging the words onto the poll it is skewing the result against composting toilet owners, and particularly those who do not properly compost.   The second part of the question (with no lengthy phraseology)  "or ban it" was again skewed to emotively guide those who have already voiced increasingly aggressive calls to ban it!  

 

Might I respectfully suggest adding to the poll another option in that ideas for a solution might be worth considering?  Just adding "I dont care" isn't particularly useful. 

The question is asking specifically about the CaRT policy change -- which is not nappies or dog poo, it's non-composted waste from composting toilets. That's the rule change they're trying to make, which has got everybody up in arms. Nappies and dog poo are what is called a diversionary argument, trying to move away from or confuse the subject under discussion. CaRT are not trying to change nappy or dog-poo policy.

 

Most polls are the same, they force people to decide what they really want to do by making them decide one way or the other, and this is deliberate because it gets to what people actually think. "Let's find a solution which everyone is happy with even if we don't know what it is or if it's possible" would always win, which is why it's never an available option.

 

So right now there are two options : 1) old rules 2) new rules. An option of 3) a new rule which pleases everybody is not an option, because it doesn't exist.

Edited by IanD
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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

In what sense are modern disposable nappies recyclable? Used nappies will comprise a mix of plastics, the absorbent medium, wee and poo. How practically could you separate the various components for recycling/treatment?

The BBC seem to think they are;

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-47964007

 

I am fairly certain Dr Bob has also said with his experience in plastics that they are as well.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

One of my pet peeves.

 

There is simply a choice, there are two options but only one choice.

 

Two choices would have three options

Thank you Alan. What's your (unicorn-free) suggestion to fix this?

Edited by IanD
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12 minutes ago, Chagall said:

But they did not rule it out for the future, so why hand it to them now as only a choice of Yes or No ... there are choices and CRT themselves have said they eventually will pilot a scheme. Enforceable or not there are always more choices, you would prefer to only poll as two options which will inevitably lead it towards yours, and others, already stated desired result.  There I suggest is the bias. 

Was the binary choice in the referendum biased?   Currently there is only 2 choices coming from CRT.   They have said they will have no alternative in the near future (IIRC they have said at least 12 months) so currently there is only a binary choice.

 

There may in the future be a greater choice but at the moment there isn't.

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14 minutes ago, Chagall said:

But they did not rule it out for the future, so why hand it to them now as only a choice of Yes or No ... there are choices and CRT themselves have said they eventually will pilot a scheme. Enforceable or not there are always more choices, you would prefer to only poll as two options which will inevitably lead it towards yours, and others, already stated desired result.  There I suggest is the bias. 

CaRT have said they'd like to find a scheme (obviously), but also that they haven't got any concrete plans on how to make this workable or any money to pay for it. I think that was pretty much what the last post I read said...

 

It's a simple question to find out what people think about the CaRT change -- old rules, new rules, or don't care.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I have cast my vote.

Thank you. I would encourage as many people as possible to do this, even if they don't care. I genuinely want to know what people think -- if they disagree with me then that's fine, but we keep seeing claims that either lots of people are in favour of allowing the practice to continue, or most boaters don't care a hoot. Let's try and find out...

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29 minutes ago, Jerra said:

The BBC seem to think they are;

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-47964007

 

I am fairly certain Dr Bob has also said with his experience in plastics that they are as well.

Yes, soiled nappies are recyclable but only when they are not contaminated. If collected separately then they can be processed removing the faeces and urine and recovering the plastic and water retaining chemicals. If covered in food, oil, ash, etc they can only go to incineration/landfil and cannot be processed.

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1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

Yes, soiled nappies are recyclable but only when they are not contaminated. If collected separately then they can be processed removing the faeces and urine and recovering the plastic and water retaining chemicals. If covered in food, oil, ash, etc they can only go to incineration/landfil and cannot be processed.

Thank you.   By saying they were recyclable I intended it to imply they would be separated in the way you have specific "banks" for specific materials.

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Well Ive ticked I dont care. Whilst I think composting bogs are a bloomin daft idea on a moving boat i think theres more to bother about in the greater scheme of things. just sayin like.

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I presume the poll is also "do you have a compost toilet or not" as those with one will want to use the facilities and those without one seem to not like them so wont.... :)

 

I don't really have an opinion so said yes they should as i can't see the difference between compost and dog s**t .....

Edited by robtheplod
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33 minutes ago, IanD said:

CaRT have said they'd like to find a scheme (obviously), but also that they haven't got any concrete plans on how to make this workable or any money to pay for it. I think that was pretty much what the last post I read said...

 

It's a simple question to find out what people think about the CaRT change -- old rules, new rules, or don't care.

Thank you. I would encourage as many people as possible to do this, even if they don't care. I genuinely want to know what people think -- if they disagree with me then that's fine, but we keep seeing claims that either lots of people are in favour of allowing the practice to continue, or most boaters don't care a hoot. Let's try and find out...

Since you already know the result then its easy to say "if they disagree with me then thats fine" you have set it up so there will only be one winner.  People do care about this situation and the length of the topic proves this,  but only being able to have the option of  ticking "I  dont care" in that situation is misrepresentative. You further deride any other attempt for voices to be heard by dismissing them with the ridicule of unicorn beliefs and giving them no choice in the poll.   

 

Will you add the option that 'Should CRT work with boaters to put forward a solution when and if it is needed as evidenced by popular demand' ? I suspect not because that wont give you quite so many votes towards your personal opinion, a poll that proves the naysayers and giving them the opportunity to say "we told you so" 

 

 

Edited by Chagall
extra 'dont' removal!
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1 minute ago, Chagall said:

Will you add the option that 'Should CRT work with boaters to put forward a solution when and if it is needed as evidenced by popular demand' ?

Has anybody got any evidence that there is an affordable solution or it it just "wishing and hoping"?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

No, its more a case of "C&RT have got to make it work because half a dozen of us have spent £1000 each on a toilet"

It would be interesting to know the general opinion of "composting Loo" owners on the following.

 

1.  If there was a cost to dispose of the "product" how much would you expect to pay?

 

2.  What volume would you expect to be able to dispose of for that fee?

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22 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Since you already know the result then its easy to say "if they disagree with me then thats fine" you have set it up so there will only be one winner.  People do care about this situation and the length of the topic proves this,  but only being able to have the option of  ticking "I dont dont care" in that situation is misrepresentative. You further deride any other attempt for voices to be heard by dismissing them with the ridicule of unicorn beliefs and giving them no choice in the poll.   

 

Will you add the option that 'Should CRT work with boaters to put forward a solution when and if it is needed as evidenced by popular demand' ? I suspect not because that wont give you quite so many votes towards your personal opinion, a poll that proves the naysayers and giving them the opportunity to say "we told you so" 

No, and I've already explained why, as have several other people.

 

I don't care whether people disagree with me or not, that's their choice. CaRT have said that -- much as they might like to -- they can't currently find another option other than banning this use of their bins.

 

I'd love there to be a solution which got the poo out of their bins and disposed of it responsibly so that everyone was happy, but there isn't one.

 

So one way or another some people are going to be unhappy; the poll should tell us how many people will be happy/unhappy with whichever option CaRT might choose. If you want a solution which allows non-composting to continue (with or without the assistance of a unicorn), vote "old rules". If you think that bins is the wrong place for poo, vote "new rules".

 

As they say, sh*t or get off the pot -- make a decision ?

 

(just think how many would have voted "leave the EU and stop paying for it *and* keep all the benefits" if this had been an option in the referendum...)

Edited by IanD
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17 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I presume the poll is also "do you have a compost toilet or not" as those with one will want to use the facilities and those without one seem to not like them so wont.... :)

 

I don't have a composting toilet but I support the concept wholeheartedly.

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1 minute ago, tehmarks said:

 

I don't have a composting toilet but I support the concept wholeheartedly.

So do I, and probably everyone else -- if its composting, in which case the issue would never have arisen...

Edited by IanD
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12 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

 

 

 

I don't really have an opinion so said yes they should as i can't see the difference between compost and dog s**t .....

....and that is the problem. There is no difference. They are both not nice things to put in a bin but thousands of tonnes per week  of dog poo are put in bins. To be unbiased the poll should ask if the crt should allow this, dog poo and dirty nappies in bins. It would be interesting to see how dog owners would respond. I would vote NOT to put these solids in bins but as it is common practice for most dog poo and most nappies to go this route then it is a route I would use.

 

Imagine the stink on here if the CRT suddenly said no more dog poo in bins? Dont get me wrong, I love dogs and we had two all our lives until not too long ago. They did produce an enormous pile of poo. We can put that in the bins.

 

Also, this thread is another example of IanD doing a Trump. Misinformation and untruths. The CRT HAVE NOT BANNED this waste. Their guidance is that it should be composted and only a 'should not' be put in bins. That is not a ban. That is not a rule. Given the question is highly suspect and an un-truth, how can the poll be taken seriously?

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5 minutes ago, IanD said:

So do I, and probably everyone else -- if its composting...

 

Yes, sorry, that was meant to be implicit. A composting toilet, with waste composted, is surely the mot elegant solution to the problem of crapping on an inland vessel. To that end, given that composting is a natural process that will occur without massive expense or infrastructure, it surely isn't beyond the wit of man to provide communal composting facilities.

 

What obviously isn't correct is putting compostable waste inside two layers of non-degradable container and chucking it into a landfill. That's the worst of all options.

Edited by tehmarks
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