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Boats returning from Europe


Phoenix_V

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19 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Point of order M'lud.   Am I the only one without a time machine?   I voted in a referendum on the 23rd June 2016 which by my calendar makes it 4 years nine months.

 

Was there an earlier referendum I missed?

 

I think he means the revised cutoff date at the end of June 2022 will be six years after the referendum.

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7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I think he means the revised cutoff date at the end of June 2022 will be six years after the referendum.

It realy wasnt hard to understand was it ?

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8 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

No, the boat isn't the main issue. I'm suggesting that taking myself into the EU from the UK for an extended period is going to be much trickier than doing the same thing had the UK still been an EU country, and that makes retiring on the European waterways very difficult.

 

 

Yes it is more complcated than it was, but we are no longer in the EU so we are treated the same as anyone from the USA, Australia, South Africa, or anywhere else that isn't in the EU.

The reasons behind the 'leave' vote were slightly more important (to the majority of the voters) than a few 'old men retiring to the European waterways'.

 

The decision to leave will have negative effects on some, postive effects on some and very little affect on others. 

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21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes it is more complcated than it was, but we are no longer in the EU so we are treated the same as anyone from the USA, Australia, South Africa, or anywhere else that isn't in the EU.

The reasons behind the 'leave' vote were slightly more important (to the majority of the voters) than a few 'old men retiring to the European waterways'.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word "reasons" . That implies rational thought, not incoherent rambling, nonsensical jingoism and a total lack of legal and economic awareness.

I agree that virtually everything is now more complicated than it was, but I'm still unconvinced that that's what the majority actually wanted or expected. Of course, if they had used their reasoning ability, they wouldn't now be surprised and complaining.

I am personally perfectly happy (being a great supporter of democracy) with the outcome as it makes little difference to me, it's just odd that all the whinging is coming from those who got the result they wanted.

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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I am personally perfectly happy (being a great supporter of democracy) with the outcome as it makes little difference to me, it's just odd that all the whinging is coming from those who got the result they wanted.

 

I can only disagree with that - look on the Brexit thread it is the minority voters who 'lost' who are the one moaning about what they have lost.

This thread is an example - the ones who wanted to stay in the EU are complaining about the fact they have lost the right to boat there.

 

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22 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I am personally perfectly happy (being a great supporter of democracy) with the outcome as it makes little difference to me, it's just odd that all the whinging is coming from those who got the result they wanted.

 

Au contraire. We spend an inordinate amount of time, usually wasted, trying to have a conversation with people who are generally unhappy with what happened, who, it seems, have no awareness of their own whinging. I suppose your kind of whinging comes under the heading of - reasonable and considered argument. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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9 minutes ago, Higgs said:

I suppose your kind of whinging comes under the heading of - reasonable and considered argument

Most does unless of course you disagree with what is being said and can't come up with a reasoned argument against it.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes it is more complcated than it was, but we are no longer in the EU so we are treated the same as anyone from the USA, Australia, South Africa, or anywhere else that isn't in the EU.

The reasons behind the 'leave' vote were slightly more important (to the majority of the voters) than a few 'old men retiring to the European waterways'.

 

The decision to leave will have negative effects on some, postive effects on some and very little affect on others. 

Y'see, its that smug arrogance and complacency that the brexiteers have that is the difference. If a section of Brit canal users were told that e.g. the Oxford canal was a bit narrow and henceforth there was to be no bankside mooring or stopping except in the case of an emergency or to ease congestion boatowners could only use their boats for 3 months a year I would be outraged even though it doesn't affect me. I'm all right Jack, you can always just sell your boat is their mantra.

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1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

That was decided by voters. a small 

This is a discussion forum.   The posts you class as whinging have nothing to do with voters but I don't suppose you had noticed that.   What is decided in any vote does not mean that it can not be discussed either in the pub, at home or on a forum, no votes needed.

 

I know Brexiteers hoped the fact  a small majority won would stifle all opposition and pointing out of the problems caused.   However life isn't like that people (almost half the population) and now going by the polls the majority aren't happy with the result of Brexit so what you call whinging will continue.  Perhaps it will get even greater if the majority in the polls gets greater.

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2 minutes ago, Bee said:

Y'see, its that smug arrogance and complacency that the brexiteers have that is the difference.

 

Some of us get to point that you and others are just a wind up. Then you get the response - ah, well, FU, have this. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

This is a discussion forum.   The posts you class as whinging have nothing to do with voters but I don't suppose you had noticed that.   What is decided in any vote does not mean that it can not be discussed either in the pub, at home or on a forum, no votes needed.

 

I know Brexiteers hoped the fact  a small majority won would stifle all opposition and pointing out of the problems caused.   However life isn't like that people (almost half the population) and now going by the polls the majority aren't happy with the result of Brexit so what you call whinging will continue.  Perhaps it will get even greater if the majority in the polls gets greater.

 

Say what you want. We've had it out hundreds of times. And here we are, getting nowhere. The vote stands.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Some of us get to point that you and others are just a wind up. Then you get the response - ah, well, FU, have this. 

 

 

 

Say what you want. We've had it out hundreds of times. And here we are, getting nowhere. The vote stands.

 

 

Which part of "it has nothing to do with votes" are you finding too difficult for your intellect?    It is discussion about the cockup created by that vote.   I know Brexiteers would prefer we didn't point out all the cockups but it is a discussion forum.

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22 minutes ago, Bee said:

If a section of Brit canal users were told that e.g. the Oxford canal was a bit narrow and henceforth there was to be no bankside mooring or stopping except in the case of an emergency ..............................

 

Strange you should suggest that.

Isn't that what is happening yet the "it doesn't affect me brigade" (ie NB's) just don't give a toss, simply saying "you shouldn't be there anyway".

 

Are you outraged ?

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  • 4 weeks later...

The vat debacle is not an inevitable result of leaving the EU and up until last year HMRC were telling us (via the RYA) that returned goods relief would be allowed.

There is now a petition promoted by the Cruising Association I hope that both brexiteers and ex rejoiners can feel able to support

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/582819

 

UK Registered and owned yachts and boats in EU should keep their VAT paid status

British registered vessels that originated in the UK and have paid VAT in British ownership at time of leaving the EU should keep their VAT paid status indefinitely and not be recharged on return to home waters by HMRC.

More details

Because it is most unfair to charge people like myself twice. Total injustice. Even the EU accepts the vessel is vat paid, so why does the UK not? This is just totally unfair.

 

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Four out of five British boat owners may quit long-term cruising in EU waters

CA
 
 

A survey carried out amongst Cruising Association (CA) members who keep their boats on the rivers and canals of Schengen countries has revealed that 80% are likely to sell their boats and give up cruising altogether, or move their base to a non-Schengen country.

Overall figures for coastal cruising boat owners are expected to be broadly similar although with more sailing out of Schengen waters to other cruising grounds.

 

CA 180-day Visa Campaign

 

The failure of the UK government to negotiate a fair deal with the EU means that UK citizens can now only visit Schengen countries for 90 days in every 180, making it impossible for boat owners to spend a whole season exploring Europe’s coasts and inland waterways.

The CA says that this flies in the face of Britain’s maritime heritage and shrinks the country’s pool of experienced, adventurous sailors. The CA’s President, Julian Dussek, is very concerned, stating:

"It will weaken the long-standing cultural ties between UK and EU boating communities, and damage efforts to rebuild tourism post- Covid. The knock-on effects could do serious damage to UK boat sales and the British marine industry in general.

"Unless we can find practical ways of overcoming this debilitating 90-day rule, British flagged boats will become a rare sight in Schengen waters. For a proud seafaring nation, this would be a real tragedy."

 

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston, Patron of the Cruising Association, recently called on The Rt Hon Oliver Dowden CBE MP, Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, to step in to resolve the difficulties now facing the approximately 30,000 British sailors who currently keep their boats in EU waters, and who are facing this threat to long-distance cruising.

The 180-Day Campaign is gathering pace, with new members signing up to the Association in support of its efforts.

24 March 2021


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Boaters (especially those who may wish to navigate the canals of Ireland and mainland EU countries) might like to sign the petition below, and also forward it to any other people or organisations who might like to support it.


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/582819

The proposal is that UK Registered and owned yachts and boats in EU should keep their VAT paid status. British registered vessels that originated in the UK and have paid VAT in British ownership at time of leaving the EU should keep their VAT paid status indefinitely and not be recharged on return to home waters by HMRC.

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Unfortunately I cannot provide a link for this, but it is from RYA sources;

 

Recreational Craft Directive issues arising from Brexit

The potential new costs of trading second-hand vessels between the UK and EU British Marine (the UK trade association for the UK leisure marine industry) and the RYA have been assessing the impact of the UK - EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement on the marine industry and recreational boat owners. British Marine and the RYA have received information from both the European Commission and the UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) on the trade of used CE marked recreational craft between the UK and EU following the UK’s exit from the European Union. It has been confirmed that a vessel being traded second-hand in one territory (UK or EU) which was lying in the other territory at the end of the Brexit transition period, is from the 1 January 2021, required to meet the obligations set out in the legislation applicable in the territory it is being placed on the market in (i.e. the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) in the EU or the Recreational Craft Regulations (RCR) in the UK). This is the case irrespective of where the boat was used in the past or whether it was previously exempt from compliance with the RCD when the UK was an EU Member State. However, this will not be implemented in the UK until 31 December 2021. This means that from 1 January 2022 a used vessel being imported from the EU to be placed on the UK market will be required to obtain a UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark in line with the requirements of the RCR. (Products lawfully placed on the market with a CE marking by 31 December 2021 can continue to circulate on the GB market after this date). In order to obtain a UKCA mark, a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification. Similar rules will apply when selling vessels into the EU. Used CE marked vessels which were in the UK at the time of departure, 11pm on the 31 December 2020, when exported to the EU will be required to undergo a recertification of the CE mark when being placed on the EU market. This means a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment in line with the RCD and third-party verification. Boat brokerages, distributors, boat owners and buyers may well be heavily affected by this post-Brexit position, as the responsibility will fall upon them to ensure a vessel meets the applicable requirements before buying and selling second-hand boats between the UK and EU. Estimated costs of Post Construction Assessments and verification in the UK alone are between 500-5000 GBP dependent on the vessel. British Marine and the RYA are currently liaising with the European Boating Industry association in order to raise concerns with this position in Europe whilst also directly engaging with the UK government. In the meantime it is recommended at all owners of CE Marked boats obtain and retain information ascertaining the boat’s location at 2300 UTC on 31 December 2020 in case this is needed to demonstrate the validity of a boat’s CE Mark or exemption from the RCD in the future.

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22 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Unfortunately I cannot provide a link for this, but it is from RYA sources;

 

Recreational Craft Directive issues arising from Brexit

 

The potential new costs of trading second-hand vessels between the UK and EU British Marine (the UK trade association for the UK leisure marine industry) and the RYA have been assessing the impact of the UK - EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement on the marine industry and recreational boat owners. British Marine and the RYA have received information from both the European Commission and the UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) on the trade of used CE marked recreational craft between the UK and EU following the UK’s exit from the European Union. It has been confirmed that a vessel being traded second-hand in one territory (UK or EU) which was lying in the other territory at the end of the Brexit transition period, is from the 1 January 2021, required to meet the obligations set out in the legislation applicable in the territory it is being placed on the market in (i.e. the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) in the EU or the Recreational Craft Regulations (RCR) in the UK). This is the case irrespective of where the boat was used in the past or whether it was previously exempt from compliance with the RCD when the UK was an EU Member State. However, this will not be implemented in the UK until 31 December 2021. This means that from 1 January 2022 a used vessel being imported from the EU to be placed on the UK market will be required to obtain a UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark in line with the requirements of the RCR. (Products lawfully placed on the market with a CE marking by 31 December 2021 can continue to circulate on the GB market after this date). In order to obtain a UKCA mark, a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification. Similar rules will apply when selling vessels into the EU. Used CE marked vessels which were in the UK at the time of departure, 11pm on the 31 December 2020, when exported to the EU will be required to undergo a recertification of the CE mark when being placed on the EU market. This means a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment in line with the RCD and third-party verification. Boat brokerages, distributors, boat owners and buyers may well be heavily affected by this post-Brexit position, as the responsibility will fall upon them to ensure a vessel meets the applicable requirements before buying and selling second-hand boats between the UK and EU. Estimated costs of Post Construction Assessments and verification in the UK alone are between 500-5000 GBP dependent on the vessel. British Marine and the RYA are currently liaising with the European Boating Industry association in order to raise concerns with this position in Europe whilst also directly engaging with the UK government. In the meantime it is recommended at all owners of CE Marked boats obtain and retain information ascertaining the boat’s location at 2300 UTC on 31 December 2020 in case this is needed to demonstrate the validity of a boat’s CE Mark or exemption from the RCD in the future.

 

any bets on how long before someone says but didnt you know all that in June 2016

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35 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

In the meantime it is recommended at all owners of CE Marked boats obtain and retain information ascertaining the boat’s location at 2300 UTC on 31 December 2020 in case this is needed to demonstrate the validity of a boat’s CE Mark or exemption from the RCD in the future.

 

Both of the marinas that our boats are in have issued cetificates of location so as to meet Brexit / EU / VAT requirements :

 

Example :

 

 

Screenshot (299)_LI.jpg

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Maybe this is behind the newbie problem she posted about when she was trying to buy a boat and the surveyor told her it couldn't be sold without an RCD (rules from 2017 that now an RCD is 'for life')

 

It may be that the Eu - UK  / UK - EU sale of boats is having an effect on the 'unlikely to be sold outside the UK' type of boats.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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