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Boats returning from Europe


Phoenix_V

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1 hour ago, Phoenix_V said:

another reason why they will not make any money but the number of barges that qualify is not that great

Parglena qualified at 61x11'6, real barges qualify with ease it's only fat narrow boats that don't as the cabin sides are too tall ?

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7 hours ago, matty40s said:

Theres plenty of Brits with boats in France and the other lowland countries.Now they may not be able to enjoy them when they want, or for as long as they want.

Bringing the boats back to the UK canal and river network may not be as simple and cost free as it should have been in the past.

 

When I asked about the potential difficulties in taking my boat to France a couple of years ago all the brexiteers said it would be no different than a boat coming from any other non-EU country and wouldn't be a problem.

 

The first part might be true, we're now a non-EU country so it's the same as a boat coming from any other non-EU country, but the second part is far from true. The customs and import buracracy is going to be a nightmare and then of course one can leave the boat there but only stay for 3 months oneself, so that limits liveaboard options. 

 

Or is talk of increased problems and buracracy still considered part of "Operation Fear" ?

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10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

The first part might be true, we're now a non-EU country so it's the same as a boat coming from any other non-EU country, but the second part is far from true. The customs and import buracracy is going to be a nightmare and then of course one can leave the boat there but only stay for 3 months oneself, so that limits liveaboard options. 

 

Are you suggesting that the requirements for taking a boat from the UK into the EU are more onerous than bringing a boat into the EU from any other non-EU country ?

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5 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

the option of popping back every 3 years to renew it's vat status isn't really on but thanks for the thought.

Plan B is to sell the boat in Europe when I am finished in Europe and replace it in the UK, rather sad as I fitted the boat from a bare hull and another will not be the same

 

Depends how long you intend to keep the boat in the EU I suppose.

 

If you bring it back this year you don't need to pay the UK VAT as I understand it.  If you keep it on the trailer then send it back to the EU once you have proof it's been returned to the UK don't you get another three years?

 

If that sounds like a lot of messing about, how many times would you need to do that to equal the cost of bringing it back once later and paying the tax? 

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17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Depends how long you intend to keep the boat in the EU I suppose.

 

If you bring it back this year you don't need to pay the UK VAT as I understand it.  If you keep it on the trailer then send it back to the EU once you have proof it's been returned to the UK don't you get another three years?

 

If that sounds like a lot of messing about, how many times would you need to do that to equal the cost of bringing it back once later and paying the tax? 

1) a few more years yet 2) correct afaik but it really would be a lot off faff 3)between 4 and 10 is my best guess

Edited by Phoenix_V
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The rules about taking a boat from here to the EU are down to the EU, and we no longer have any influence.

But surely the rules on bringing a boat from the EU to the UK are set by the UK government. So why do we now have all this red tape and extra tax liability, when the same folk who are now in government told us a post-Brexit world (agreement or no agreement) would be so straightforward?

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12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The rules about taking a boat from here to the EU are down to the EU, and we no longer have any influence.

But surely the rules on bringing a boat from the EU to the UK are set by the UK government. So why do we now have all this red tape and extra tax liability, when the same folk who are now in government told us a post-Brexit world (agreement or no agreement) would be so straightforward?

Because they told lies.   No surprises there then.

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27 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Because they told lies.   No surprises there then.

It's not quite as simple as that, though obviously some did, but that's just politics. The real problem is that nobody knew what the new rules would be until an agreement was in place and, in a lot of ways, it still isn't as negotiations will go on for years. And because of that, it was impossible to train the tax and customs bods required, or to adjust general rules to take into account special cases - assuming anyone thinks these are important. No doubt things will be tweaked, but a few well off blokes not being able to move their boats about is going to be a hell of a lot further down the agenda than, say, empty supermarket shelves in NI, or the prime minister's favourite opera singer not being allowed to warble in London.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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41 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The rules about taking a boat from here to the EU are down to the EU, and we no longer have any influence.

But surely the rules on bringing a boat from the EU to the UK are set by the UK government. So why do we now have all this red tape and extra tax liability, when the same folk who are now in government told us a post-Brexit world (agreement or no agreement) would be so straightforward?

 

You are absolutely correct  - the problems have been created by our own dear beloved country. At the moment a vessel that was granted Qualifying Ship status for zero rate VAT should continue to have that status on its return to the UK. However I can see that this is an ideal opportunity for HMRC to have the rules changed in a way that would make zero status for such vessels impossible in the future. Boat owners and now also musicians are trying hard to get the 90 days stay in a 180 day period rule for Schengen countries extended or changed, but it will most likely happen by agreements with each individual EU country which will take quite a time to set up if it even is possible. Now the likes of Elton John have got involved at least Johnson and co. might listen rather than just shrug their shoulders as they have so far.

 

Tam

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16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The real problem is that nobody knew what the new rules would be until an agreement was in place

As said before these particular rules are totally under the control of the UK and the RYA were first told that they would be applied in a sensible manner and then that written promise was reneged on 3 months before brexit happened in the middle of a pandemic

18 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

And because of that, it was impossible to train the tax and customs bods required, or to adjust general rules to take into account special cases - assuming anyone thinks these are important. No doubt things will be tweaked, but a few well off blokes not being able to move their boats about is going to be a hell of a lot further down the agenda than, say, empty supermarket shelves in NI, or the prime minister's favourite opera singer not being allowed to warble in London.

It clearly is well down the agenda but that didnt stop them having the time to reverse their previous promise

Nor is every yachtsman or canal boater well off

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17 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 

You are absolutely correct  - the problems have been created by our own dear beloved country. At the moment a vessel that was granted Qualifying Ship status for zero rate VAT should continue to have that status on its return to the UK. However I can see that this is an ideal opportunity for HMRC to have the rules changed in a way that would make zero status for such vessels impossible in the future. Boat owners and now also musicians are trying hard to get the 90 days stay in a 180 day period rule for Schengen countries extended or changed, but it will most likely happen by agreements with each individual EU country which will take quite a time to set up if it even is possible. Now the likes of Elton John have got involved at least Johnson and co. might listen rather than just shrug their shoulders as they have so far.

 

Tam

It probably hasn't occured to HMRC that some ships will be zero rated so I think you may well be OK on that one, the fact is that very few of the estimated 33000 UK boats in the EU are zero rated.

I too am hopeing that we can piggyback on the musicians issues with travel, and their celebrity  backers (though it is reported on the DBA forum that Robin Knox Johnson has joined the fray on our behalf) but as I understand it the musicians are happy with 90 days but need work permits wheras we do not need work permits but want more than 90 days.

 

Edited by Phoenix_V
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11 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

 

It looks like a lot of folks are taking the opportunity of the 12 months extra transition time period.

 

P&M are not cheap, when we bought the Cat in Croatia I looked at getting P&M to bring it back for us.

We would have had to get it from Croatia across to one of the Italian ports, they would then bring it across to Southampton and we'd take it from Southampton to Hull.

 

The Quote awas £30,000

 

We decided we'd sail her back, Rijeca - Hull took exactly 30 days (inc 2 rest-days) to do the 3050 miles.

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's not quite as simple as that, though obviously some did, but that's just politics. The real problem is that nobody knew what the new rules would be until an agreement was in place and, in a lot of ways, it still isn't as negotiations will go on for years. And because of that, it was impossible to train the tax and customs bods required, or to adjust general rules to take into account special cases - assuming anyone thinks these are important. No doubt things will be tweaked, but a few well off blokes not being able to move their boats about is going to be a hell of a lot further down the agenda than, say, empty supermarket shelves in NI, or the prime minister's favourite opera singer not being allowed to warble in London.

Oi! Arthur! I'm not a well off bloke! I'm a poor old pensioner trying to make ends meet and huddling around the last piece of coal on the fire and my boat is full of second hand and homemade stuff and wood out of skips. Well off blokes indeed hmph.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

May as well leave in in the EU and pay your VAT when (if) you eventually decide to bring it back.

Our boat is indeed staying in the EU and we have no plans to bring it back to the UK.

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53 minutes ago, Bee said:

Oi! Arthur! I'm not a well off bloke! I'm a poor old pensioner trying to make ends meet and huddling around the last piece of coal on the fire and my boat is full of second hand and homemade stuff and wood out of skips. Well off blokes indeed hmph.

If you're a pensioner who can afford not only a boat but to whizz over the channel to float it every now and then, then you're pretty well off compared to most people! I very carefully didn't say "rich", "wealthy" or "bloated capitalist leeching off the downtrodden proletariat", though, if course, should the cap fit...

Mostly, what kind of boat we have and where we have it is a lifestyle choice which means we go without other stuff to afford it. But I still suspect those in that position won't be regarded as high priority, unless it so happens that a member of the cabinet is one of them, in which case it'll be sorted in next week's budget.

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My own feeling is that Johnson is quite happy to bugger off now - he got to be be PM as he planned, but obviously there was no way to anticipate Covid, and that must have been a bit of a downer. He can still 'earn' (a dubious term in its context) megabucks as ex-PM. He'd probably not want to do anything that might threaten a Conservative win in the next election, but the pfaff of negotiating anything more than the standard 90/180 day stay in Schengen countries problably isn't worth the effort, and fishermen would probably be even more uptight if he payed more attention to yachtsmen than to them. He's happy to encourage naff things like standing on the doorstep and clapping which encourage the feeling that he is a caring person rather than do anything serious and thoughtful.

 

Tam

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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you suggesting that the requirements for taking a boat from the UK into the EU are more onerous than bringing a boat into the EU from any other non-EU country ?

 

I don't think you read the same post/s that I did???

 

He said that he had been told that it would be the same, but that it would be no problem.

 

He now finds that it is the same, and a huge problem,

 

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23 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

I don't think you read the same post/s that I did???

 

He said that he had been told that it would be the same, but that it would be no problem.

 

He now finds that it is the same, and a huge problem,

 

 

 

No, it is exactly the same as it ever was to bring a boat in from any non-eu country.

 

If someone is deluded enough to think that being out of the EU is going to be the same as being in the EU then its time to wake up.

Next you'll be telling me you believed the politicians when they said that on the 24th June 2016 the sky would fall in, we'd have mass unempolyment and housing prices would crash thru the floor, then others said Turkey will be joining the EU and we could give the NHS £350 million a week.

 

Are you really that easily fooled ?

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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

No, it is exactly the same as it ever was to bring a boat in from any non-eu country.

 

If someone is deluded enough to think that being out of the EU is going to be the same as being in the EU then its time to wake up.

Next you'll be telling me you believed the politicians when they said that on the 24th June 2016 the sky would fall in, we'd have mass unempolyment and housing prices would crash thru the floor, then others said Turkey will be joining the EU and we could give the NHS £350 million a week.

 

Are you really that easily fooled ?

What on earth are you talking about now? It would seem that you have begun to deliberately misunderstand stuff for effect. This isn't the first time it has happened, and I suppose it wont be the last. Unless, of course, you have lost your marbles, in which case I am sorry to hear it :( 

 

Where did anybody say that that bringing a boat into the EU from a non-EU country was going to be any different?

 

As for the rest of your post...  Jeez!!

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

What on earth are you talking about now? It would seem that you have begun to deliberately misunderstand stuff for effect. This isn't the first time it has happened, and I suppose it wont be the last. Unless, of course, you have lost your marbles, in which case I am sorry to hear it :( 

 

Where did anybody say that that bringing a boat into the EU from a non-EU country was going to be any different?

 

As for the rest of your post...  Jeez!!

 

 

 

I think it must be time for your bed - you cannot even read a single line of text without making errors ;

 

"No, it is exactly the same as it ever was to bring a boat in from any non-eu country".

"Where did anybody say that that bringing a boat into the EU from a non-EU country was going to be any different?"

 

Spot the difference - clue - we are talking about bringing a boat INTO THE UK.

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Surely it is going to be the same, now, bringing a boat into the UK from anywhere, the country it's coming from (EU or nonEU) is now irrelevant. That's the whole point of leaving the EU - to be a separate state.

If people had wanted the rules/taxes/duties to stay the same, we wouldn't have had a majority for change.

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