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Moving from Norfolk broads to Canal system


Satchmo

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Hello all! I'm currently living aboard a yacht on the Norfolk broads and have been thinking recently about moving to the canal network for a number of personal reasons but I'm struggling to find definitive answers for some of the issues this move would present. My plan is to stay exclusively on the northern parts of the system with York, Liverpool and Leeds being areas I want to spend most of my time around. And so I have two main questions for you wonderful folk:
1. Are the dimensions of my boat practical for cruising the canals? She's 26ft long with an 8.2ft beam and a 3ft draft (her sailing days are long gone so I'm going to remove the mast and use her as a cruiser, as such she has max 8ft air draft), I'm aware that this would prevent me from accessing many of the narrower canals but would the draft restrict me from using some locks or shallower passages? Looking at some "widebeam maps" has reassured me that I would't be too restricted by the beam but I have no idea how deep these waterways are.
2. How do I get from here to there? By land or by sea seem to be the two options and if possible I would want to do it by sea for money reasons but finding specific info for either of these options has been surprisingly tricky (or maybe I'm just a bit rubbish at looking for it) so if anyone has any experience with either of these, or links to helpful websites, or any vaguely-related info please throw it my way! A few dilemnas I'm anticipating are: do I need specific experience to take it around the coast, would it even be possible to take a mastless yacht with these dimensions around the coast (long keel, heavy displacement if that helps), where would it be from and/or to (would Gt.Yarmouth to Boston be sensible/possible), how much would it cost to take it overland (any rough estimate would be very welcome), etc?

 

I know I'm asking a lot here, literally more than figuratively perhaps, but I'm after as much info as I can get my eyes on so many thanks in advance and I look forward to your replies!

P.S, obviously with covid and whatnot I wouldn't be attempting any of this for at least a few months when things have (hopefully) calmed down a bit, in case anybody was concerned.

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The boat we have just sold had very similar dimensions to yours and we cruised a fair bit of the northern system.

 

You will be fine on the Ouse, Trent, Aire and Calder, Fossdyke and Witham.

 

With the boat being small you would get it towed behind a large car very cheaply so in my opinion not worth the risk of heading out to sea with no experience. Someone like Tony Tugboat would move it for you on his trailer. 

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

You will be fine on the Ouse, Trent, Aire and Calder, Fossdyke and Witham.

Additionally, the South Yorkshire Navigation to Sheffield should be fine, along with the New Junction Canal. The Selby Canal may be OK, though the air draft is on the limit and the bridges are arched.If the Leeds and Liverpool, the Rochdale and Calder and Hebble turn out to be a problem, you still have a large cruising range. Much bigger than the Broads.

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27 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Additionally, the South Yorkshire Navigation to Sheffield should be fine, along with the New Junction Canal. The Selby Canal may be OK, though the air draft is on the limit and the bridges are arched.If the Leeds and Liverpool, the Rochdale and Calder and Hebble turn out to be a problem, you still have a large cruising range. Much bigger than the Broads.

The Selby should be fine we got through there with our hoods up.

 

Yes forgot about the SSYN as well. Shouldn't have a problem on there.

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

'Optimistic' being on the wrong side of correct.

 

The River Trent is supposed to be dreged to 6' 6" (2 metres), I not infrequently hit with bottom with a 5' draft.

They would be pessimistic if they under rated! 

 

They were definitely optimistic. 

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14 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

The max water draft dimensions published by CRT are on the optimistic side shall we say.

Also there is a lack of uniformity for the 'draught' which sometimes refers to the depth of water available and sometimes the maximum recommended vessel draft. (I've been trying to get that standardised). So for example the BCN at 4 foot is obviously wrong as is the Pocklington Canal!  3 feet draft should be fine on all the wide northern waterways I think if you stick to the channel. I went down the Selby canal after it had been dredged a couple of years ago (or so) at about 3ft 9in draft easily.

Best of luck

David L

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17 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

The boat we have just sold had very similar dimensions to yours and we cruised a fair bit of the northern system.

 

You will be fine on the Ouse, Trent, Aire and Calder, Fossdyke and Witham.

 

With the boat being small you would get it towed behind a large car very cheaply so in my opinion not worth the risk of heading out to sea with no experience. Someone like Tony Tugboat would move it for you on his trailer. 

I seem to recall you posting a photo of you coming under some of the bridges in Lincoln - might help the OP to make own judgement!

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5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I seem to recall you posting a photo of you coming under some of the bridges in Lincoln - might help the OP to make own judgement!

Our air draft with the hoods up is closer to 9ft so a good foot or so more than the OP's.

 

There is a video here though:

 

 

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Thank you all for your input and suggestions, I feel far more optimistic about my plans now!

On 25/02/2021 at 17:30, Naughty Cal said:

With the boat being small you would get it towed behind a large car very cheaply so in my opinion not worth the risk of heading out to sea with no experience. Someone like Tony Tugboat would move it for you on his trailer. 

Excellent point, I had automatically assumed it would be a costly HIAB job so had put road transport to the back of my mind but I guess it could be towed. I'm currently waiting for a reply from Tony Tugboat and in the meantime, does anyone have experience with other boat transport companys that they would recommend?
Also does anyone know whether a yacht of this size could be loaded/unloaded onto/off of a trailer using a slipway or would it have to be a crane job?

 

Also I was being pessimistic with the 8ft air draft, it's the only dimension I don't have an accurate measurement for but realistically it's probably closer to 6-7ft :)

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On 25/02/2021 at 17:13, Satchmo said:

Are the dimensions of my boat practical for cruising the canals? She's 26ft long with an 8.2ft beam and a 3ft draft

 

If she's a Westerly Centaur with twin keels, you will struggle getting in to the sides in many places on the L&L.  I think it is just possible to navigate the L&L across to Liverpool but you'll need to be very selective where you stop en route.

 

@dylanwinter of https://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/ was looking at doing this trip a few years back, but ended up not buying the boat he was thinking of due to a crane accident with it!

 

 

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Last time I witnessed a boat with a keel on a canal in the North East part of the system was at West Haddersley lock.

 

He was transiting the Selby to get from the Ouse to the Aire and was struggling big style. He did make it but goodness knows what condition the keel was in by the time he got back on the river.

 

One to avoid I would say.

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  • 1 year later...

When I first read this (old) thread, it reminded me of the following (uk.rec.waterways) posting from 2005, which at the time I couldn't find, and now have. It's worth a re-read 🙂 There were comments in 2005 that it was reported in (perhaps) WW about 20 years before, but nothing was ever found.

timbuktu@rgm8.fsnet.co.uk  15 Jun 2005, 13:18:27 wrote:

A few years back a friend of mine who shall be nameless in case he feels embarrassed about the recall of this maritime incident, had his narrow boat road transported to the Norfolk Broads as his wife had got a job in Norwich. As things happen, they broke up, and as one does he got restless with being restricted to the Broads and yearned to be back on the canals.

 

To flavour the story you need to have a picture of the character, who is a lovable, highly intelligent slightly nutty intellectual. A kind of mad professor who would think nothing of bringing his boat all the way up from London to Macclesfield in the middle of winter and set off back the next day just for a dozen organic eggs and a chat.

 

One misty Norfolk Broads morning he woke up very early with a problem on his mind. He had to escape back to the canals! and without further ado he had a cup of tea, untied the boat and set off down the River Yare, across Breydon water, through Great Yarmouth and out into the wide unforgiving North Sea.


The coast guards on Gorleston pier (I think that's where they are, or were.) were amazed to see a sixty foot narrow boat blithely heading out to sea especially with a northerly gale forecasted. They informed the lifeboat. As soon as the boat cleared the beach and was a reasonable distance out it turned left and headed north. Our friend's intention was to coast hop along the coast of Norfolk until he got to the Wash and then, I think get into Kings Lynn or Boston which would give him access to the system. I am not over sure which river and port it was he intended to make for.

 

He said that he felt quite exhilarated out at sea, it was lovely and fresh and he had a feeling of complete freedom. The boat fairly romped along over a gentle swell although he could hear things smashing about a bit below. After a while a slight head sea started build up with the odd wave breaking over the bow. But he was still in a yo ho ho, a life on the ocean wave mood with the boat happily making good progress up the coast as he could identify landmarks on the shore. The head wind started to increase and the swell gradually got larger and turned into white topped waves, the whole fore end of the boat was now taking them over the top.

 

As you go up the Norfolk coast from Great Yarmouth your first heading is due north then as you start to go round the hump the heading starts to go north-west and then west. When the intrepid narrow boat started to go round the hump with a more westerly heading, the seas started to go on to the beam and the boat started to roll. Things were being chucked about below and the nice sunny exhilarating day went cold and grey. Then things started to become alarming.


The seas built up, the boat was seriously being thrown around. Everything was crashing about below, the cabin floor became awash and now belongings and things were being surged from side to side as the boat rolled. One of the windows must have given in to the waves! He recalled that it was quite an unnerving experience to see green sea swoshing about on the cabin floor with all his books floating around.

 

One of the hazards of the Norfolk coast is that there is a line of sandbanks just off shore, and now white seas were breaking over them. Our friend decided enough was enough, looked for a gap between the sandbanks and headed the boat towards the shore. He powered the engine to full revs and in his words, she virtually surfed along on top of a wave with the stern in the air. Water was now well up in the cabin and the engine was spluttering. He just prayed that it would keep going to get him to the beach which was now being pounded by a big sea. It did! Just dying only yards away, but the momentum and incoming waves surged the boat right up the beach like a stranded whale. Within minutes a lifeboat also came surging in. His progress had obviously been monitored from the shore and as conditions worsened they had decided to launch.

 

Everything moveable was removed from the wet tangled mess in the cabin and taken up the steep beach. A much loved piano on board had to be left. There was a full gale that night and the next morning the boat was split apart and a complete wreck. Debris, personable belongings and bits of the piano were found the next day quite a few miles up the coast, strewn along the beach.

 

I have written this, I suppose in quite a flippant ripping yarn sort of way. I love characters like the owner of that unfortunate narrow boat. There will be those of you who will say, and possibly write on this voyage that there should be a law to stop inexperienced people from going to sea, they put other people lives at risk etc, and of course, more laws or regulations to stop some of the stupid things some of us do. We can't all be the safe cosy  onforming majority. We need individuals. The adventurers, the explorers, the nut cases, the inventors, the lateral thinkers and doers, as otherwise there would be no interesting books to read, and George W Bush wouldn't have dear ole America to be president of, as nobody would have discovered it, and the Santa Maria would never have been given a certificate of compliance.

 

I do apologise to my dear friend if there are certain inaccuracies in this tale, and maybe my description of him. It is as near to his narrative as I can remember, and, it did happen! I might say, a wonderful tale. Better than somebody's a trip report on the four counties ring!

Roger.

 

 

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On 26/02/2021 at 09:42, fanshaft said:

3 feet draft should be fine on all the wide northern waterways I think if you stick to the channel.

 

Having taken our "Grand Union" ex-working narrow boat "Flamingo" up the Rochdale to Hebden Bridge and Sowerby Bridge, I can't really agree.

Flamingo has a static draught of about 2' 10", but pulling down to more like 3' when moving.

We spent large amounts of time grounding on all manner of things, and often needed help from others to get going again.

I'm not sure what various sources claim as the depth dimension for the Rochdale, but if it is 3', I would consider that highly optimistic.

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I've also done the Rochdale in a large GU boat, and while we certainly touched the bottom quite a lot, most of the problems occurred on pounds where the level was down a bit. When the canal is on weir the main channel is mostly fine (although the edges, including designated mooring areas on the towpath, are another matter, likewise the winding holes). Of course like anywhere you do come across rubbish that has been thrown into the canal, and having walked a section which was empty due to a failed culvert a few years ago, there were some huge piles of gravel debris where streams entered the canal - photos on here somewhere - and I can imagine they would be a problem for a deep drafted boat!

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