Beta Marine JD3 manual

[dmr]

HVO and diesel mix fine, but due to unfortunate regulations only white HVO is available on the cut (if at all) so is expensive.

Does the engine smoke even when working hard?

I suggest you fit that temperature guage to confirm that it really is getting up to running temperature.

Have you spoken to Beta about the smoke? From a few comments I have heard it is possibly worse on the more recent engines so maybe Beta have some knowledge of this.

Another possible route would be to try advancing the injection timing a little bit, if the engine sound horrible then put it back 😀.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, Richard Eley said:

Injectors removed - pop tested and all are working to 240 psi

 

42 minutes ago, Richard Eley said:

.s was previously mentioned the difference between the Beta recommended 265 bar and 240 bar

 

 

I think you need to confirm the correct units - 240 bar is almost 15x the pressure of 240 psi

 

If Beta are specifying 240 bar and you are getting 240 psi its no wonder you have problems.

[RJE]

Sorry - Beta put the psi into my head, they are def set to 240 bar 😊

DMR - thanks for the HVO advice. Not sure I would want to be playing around with injection timing myself and seems tricky to find anyone with Stanadyne knowledge.
Haven’t been anywhere that needs engine to work hard so can’t really comment on how it smokes then unfortunately and Beta just don’t seem to have any real knowledge of this engine anymore. 

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Richard Eley said:

Sorry - Beta put the psi into my head, they are def set to 240 bar 😊

DMR - thanks for the HVO advice. Not sure I would want to be playing around with injection timing myself and seems tricky to find anyone with Stanadyne knowledge.
Haven’t been anywhere that needs engine to work hard so can’t really comment on how it smokes then unfortunately and Beta just don’t seem to have any real knowledge of this engine anymore. 

 

There are only a small handful of proper Stanadyne agents in the UK, plus a few more who understand it all, but they are probably not allowed to mess with the timing on an emissions certified engine (even though its already way out of spec with the low revs). Timing is really easy to adjust though you might need to make or buy a bent 13mm spanner. First thing is to sort out the thermostat and temperature guage.

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

There are only a small handful of proper Stanadyne agents in the UK, plus a few more who understand it all, but they are probably not allowed to mess with the timing on an emissions certified engine (even though its already way out of spec with the low revs). Timing is really easy to adjust though you might need to make or buy a bent 13mm spanner. First thing is to sort out the thermostat and temperature guage.

Are there not agricultural engineers who know about the engine or was it not fitted to many UK tractors

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Are there not agricultural engineers who know about the engine or was it not fitted to many UK tractors

 

I have thought the same, there are John Deere tractors everywhere. This engine was only fitted to the smaller ones but the 4 and 6 cylinder versions are essentially the same engine. The smoke issue will be due to Beta running this engine at a much lower speed than intended so will be outside the experience of farm engineers. Its also reputed to be a very reliable engine so maybe its not often worked on, and any fuel system problems are fixed by just fitting new parts.

There are a couple of farming type forums with a tiny bit of info but they are very USA bassed. The Stanadyne pump was also used in some pickup trucks so there are USA forums on how to rebuild them and make them deliver more fuel than intended, but in general not as informed and friendly as this forum. We like to moan about canalworld but try looking at some engine or software forums to get things into perspective 😀

[RJE]

Not sure about the JD / Stanadyne UK support - new injectors for this engine are easy to source from the US, much less so from UK agents who seem to have problems getting hold of the correct units. 

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I have thought the same, there are John Deere tractors everywhere. This engine was only fitted to the smaller ones but the 4 and 6 cylinder versions are essentially the same engine. The smoke issue will be due to Beta running this engine at a much lower speed than intended so will be outside the experience of farm engineers. Its also reputed to be a very reliable engine so maybe its not often worked on, and any fuel system problems are fixed by just fitting new parts.

There are a couple of farming type forums with a tiny bit of info but they are very USA bassed. The Stanadyne pump was also used in some pickup trucks so there are USA forums on how to rebuild them and make them deliver more fuel than intended, but in general not as informed and friendly as this forum. We like to moan about canalworld but try looking at some engine or software forums to get things into perspective 😀

I have the BD3 and have only recently found that it is the same engine as the Ford 3910 so have started sourcing spares from Agriline.

It's a shame that the Beta expert retired as he was so useful

[dmr]

32 minutes ago, Richard Eley said:

Not sure about the JD / Stanadyne UK support - new injectors for this engine are easy to source from the US, much less so from UK agents who seem to have problems getting hold of the correct units. 

 

A john Deere agent should be able to supply these injectors, either new or recon, and all other engine parts. They have a huge parts website, you can put your  engine number in and see the parts specific to your engine, but I do find it a bit difficult to navigate at times, or maybe its temperamental. You need to specify a dealer to see the prices.

[Tonka]

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

A john Deere agent should be able to supply these injectors, either new or recon, and all other engine parts. They have a huge parts website, you can put your  engine number in and see the parts specific to your engine, but I do find it a bit difficult to navigate at times, or maybe its temperamental. You need to specify a dealer to see the prices.

John Deere Tractor Parts, Spares & Accessories | Agriline Products 21 matches for John Deere injectors

 

Fuel Injector | Agriline Products £74.40 for a Stanadyne one

Edited July 11 by Tonka

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

A john Deere agent should be able to supply these injectors,

 

We had John Deere Mowers and 'small' JD tractors on the Golf Course. There was one time when the local JD dealer didn't have the part in stock, and neither did their distribution centre at Langar, they ordered the part from the US and it was flown in overnight and arrived at my local dealer next afternoon.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

I have the BD3 and have only recently found that it is the same engine as the Ford 3910 so have started sourcing spares from Agriline.

It's a shame that the Beta expert retired as he was so useful

 

Neil Edwards? he was a good bloke and knew the JD3 well, I met him a couple of times. I believe he had a serious health scare and took early retirement, but that was probably at about the time that Beta discontinued the JD3 anyway.

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We had John Deere Mowers and 'small' JD tractors on the Golf Course. There was one time when the local JD dealer didn't have the part in stock, and neither did their distribution centre at Langar, they ordered the part from the US and it was flown in overnight and arrived at my local dealer next afternoon.

 

I think you have to pay a bit extra for that service, but there are parts stashed all over the place and a dealer can locate them and get them really quickly. If its harvest time and a machine is broke thats the sort of service that a farmer would expect.

I enquired about a new injection pump and the dealer said (amazingly) that only two existed, in Germany I think, and a couple of days later I had one 😀

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, dmr said:

If its harvest time and a machine is broke thats the sort of service that a farmer would expect.

 

It is the sort of service a golf course expects when a machine is broken down and leaking oil on the  middle of the fairway.

[dmr]

25 minutes ago, Tonka said:

John Deere Tractor Parts, Spares & Accessories | Agriline Products 21 matches for John Deere injectors

 

Fuel Injector | Agriline Products £74.40 for a Stanadyne one

 

The injector in the second link is not the right one but maybe you are just giving this as an example.

I reckon it goes something like this....

Stanadyne give a new part number for every application so two similar machines will have different part numbers for their injectors even though it might be the same injector. The corresponding technical data is all secret and only available to stanadyne agents.

John Deere do something a bit similar, probably because they are using Stanadyne parts.  Some big suppliers (Agriline?) produce tables of cross references, and sometimes John Deere do this themselves.

So the only safe way to get a correct part is to put your engine number into the Deere parts website.

The OP has a 3029DF150 while mosts JD3's are the DF120. The injectors have different part numbers but might or might not be the same injector. My guess is that the DF150 injects later and faster so likely uses a slightly different injector.

A thought...and a long shot.....maybe a previous owner has put new and wrong injectors in which are causing the smoke?

If you slide the mounting spacer sleeve on the injector upwards I think the actual Stanadyne part number will be engraved on the body.

I remember spending ages trying to unravel all this when I wanted new injectors quite a few years ago.

[RJE]

Checked the injector for part number as as suggested - looks like 33235 which with a bit of Googling seems to be the same as RE50833 which is the p/n Beta gave me. 

https://www.fridayparts.com/fuel-injector-re50833-for-john-deere-engine-3029-2-9l-4045-tractor-5103-5105-5203-5205-5210-5220-5303-5310-5320

[dmr]

Looking back at my notes from my injector swap (8 years ago) these are the same injectors that John Deere sold me so thats good news.

Interesting that John Deere give a different part number for the DF120 while most sellers (like your link) just specify the 3029 engine. Maybe the injector differences are insignificant or non existent, who knows?😀

Also interesting I have noted that some injectors on eBay (from China) quote the part number that is stamped on the mounting bracket which is the part number of the mounting bracket not the injector. I suspect that any pencil injector will likely work in any engine to some extent.

 

Note that there are two thicknesses of plastic mounting washer and that somewhere on the www is a Stanadyne document saying that some injectors were supplied with the wrong (thinner?) washer but Stanadyne decided that this was a good thing. 

[RJE]

Injectors back in and it’s running smoke free again for now. Will look at cooling system this week and then hopefully everything will be as good as it can be. Will take it out asap and try and give it a decent run on the GU rather than dredging the South Oxford at tick-over all day 😊

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Richard Eley said:

Injectors back in and it’s running smoke free again for now. Will look at cooling system this week and then hopefully everything will be as good as it can be. Will take it out asap and try and give it a decent run on the GU rather than dredging the South Oxford at tick-over all day 😊

 

You never get above tickover on the South Oxford with a deeper boat 😀 Can you pop out onto the Thames?

[RJE]

Did that recently but only Isis to Duke’s Cut so probs not enough time to clean it out. Will try and incorporate some river in next trip and/or moor somewhere out of the way and run it for half an hour with a good few revs on every couple of days. 

[Tonka]

29 minutes ago, Richard Eley said:

Did that recently but only Isis to Duke’s Cut so probs not enough time to clean it out. Will try and incorporate some river in next trip and/or moor somewhere out of the way and run it for half an hour with a good few revs on every couple of days. 

Perhaps that is where @dmr is at an advantage as he could moor up and use the travel power

[dmr]

47 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Perhaps that is where @dmr is at an advantage as he could moor up and use the travel power

The TravelPower is not enough to give the engine the real hard thrash that it should have from time to time, but is enough to load the engine up nicely when battery charging to avoid light load running problems. Driving the imersion heater is a good way to reduce the warm up time.

[RJE]

Good point - we also have a Travel Power so will put on a wash at the same time plus the domestic battery charger  😊

[john.k]

Joke of the week was the local John Deere agents had more JD toys in stock than parts.

[RJE]

😂

[RJE]

Summary of where I am with JD3 smoke issue -  

Injectors checked and confirmed all ‘popping’ at 240 Bar so reinstalled. 
Thermostat replaced, cooling system bled and all seems okay - return hose from skin tank now getting warm after a decent running time. 
Still to install temp gauge as need a VDO unit to match the installed sender it seems. (Beta now only supply Murphy gauges and senders). 
 

Took boat out for a few days and was running reasonably clean for the first few days, now back to smoking under load despite trying to give it something to do by using TravelPower for battery charging, not letting it idle too long etc. 

 

Tried connecting the disconnected cold-start sensor which immediately popped the engine electrics fuse - seems sensor has gone short circuit so was disconnected (unless never connected originally of course by Beta). 
Will try activating the Stanadyne cold-start solenoid when back in marina (just in case it has some other dire effect after not doing anything for years) to see if this makes any difference. From what I gather the solenoid should activate and  advance timing until engine reaches around 60 degrees to reduce white smoke.