Beta Marine JD3 manual

[Tonka]

21 minutes ago, Richard Eley said:

Thanks DMR, will have this checked then. I have a temp gauge that I am going to fit as all of the wiring seems to be in the loom but only the simpler control panel was fitted. 

But is the correct sender fitted for the guage

[RJE]

Good point - it’s a Beta Marine gauge but will check the sender as assume there should be two signal connections - gauge and lamp plus -ve connection unless it uses engine block as -ve?

[RJE]

Any advice on removing the thermostat housing to check / replace please without too much mess?
I guess remove enough coolant to drop the level below thermostat, then bleed system afterwards from block and skin tank points? 

[dmr]

Its a bit fiddly.

Drain  quite a bit of coolant off into a container, now would be a good time to fit a suitable drain cock if you don't alrady have one. Is your skin tank side or floor monted?, and if side how does its height compare with engine height etc.

Remove the copper bypass pipe that Beta fit, and the big hose, you might need to catch sone water in an old towel.

The thermostat is held on with two bolts that should be easy but there is a short metal bypass pipe that fits into the thermostat housing on an O ring and needs wriggling out.

Test the thermostat in a pan of hot water (with thermometer) or maybe just get a new one as they don't last forever. I reckon 82 deg is a good temperature option.  Pretty sure its the same thermostat that you get in a BMC A series engine like a mini. Some have a little nick round the main orifice to act as air bleed, some have a hole and jiggle pin, I think the small nick option is better.   You might need a new housing gasket but can likely re-use the old one. Getting the housing back on with the stat in place can be a right fiddle so hold the stat in place with a tiny dab of grease or gasket sealer.

 

Bleed the engine from the nut on the rear top corner of the cylinder head.

I got very frustrated with temperature guage issues so replaced this bleed nut with a fitting that can take a thermocouple. This was years ago but thinke that it was a BSP thread even though its an American designed engine.

[RJE]

Thanks - will order a new thermostat and gasket to be on the safe side and see how it goes! Skin tank is mounted well down on the side of the hull so significantly lower the engine. 

[dmr]

15 minutes ago, Richard Eley said:

Thanks - will order a new thermostat and gasket to be on the safe side and see how it goes! Skin tank is mounted well down on the side of the hull so significantly lower the engine. 

 

So you should be able to take out just enough water to clear the thermostat housing, then refill and blead at the cylinder head without getting any air into the skin tank, and the skin tank would probably self blead anyway.

[RJE]

On 27/06/2024 at 10:23, Tonka said:

But is the correct sender fitted for the guage

This is the temp sender fitted - in theory connections for gauge and warning lamp/buzzer. Assume -ve is from engine as the black -ve lead is not connected…..

Tue 17 May 2022 at 11:41.pdf

[dmr]

I've not heard of a combined sender/switch but looking at a Beta wiring diagram they do exist and Beta fit them. Does yours have one big terminal and one small terminal?  It might be best to speak to Beta and buy the guage head directly from them unless they can give you a part number or resistance spec for the sender.

[RJE]

2 hours ago, dmr said:

I've not heard of a combined sender/switch but looking at a Beta wiring diagram they do exist and Beta fit them. Does yours have one big terminal and one small terminal?  It might be best to speak to Beta and buy the guage head directly from them unless they can give you a part number or resistance spec for the sender.

Gauge was brought from Beta so should match.  Sender has one 4mm and one 6.3mm terminal as per Beta wiring diagram. Will hook gauge up next week and see if it works, along with checking / replacing thermostat. 

[RJE]

Hello again all, no update yet on injectors as seems to be a supply issue (at least at reasonable price as don’t want to pay Beta £200 each). 
Just looking yesterday at the thermostat job and noticed the disconnected cable between a sensor on the thermostat housing and the fuel pump - see attached photo. The two connectors are just cable-tied together rather than connected. Is this normal? Also note that the white cable from the fuel pump is not connected to anything, just terminates open ended on other side of the engine. All very odd. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Richard Eley said:

Also note that the white cable from the fuel pump is not connected to anything, just terminates open ended on other side of the engine. All very odd.

 

White is the British colour code for ignition switch controlled feed with no fuse, so I would surmise that it once fed something that needed supplying only when the ignition is on, using the pump terminal as a junction bx. I think that I can see another white wire on it as well as a red.

 

Unless one really knows the engine and Beta wiring, you would have to consult the wiring diagram to see if they need connection to anything, but I suspect they are redundant on your spec of engine and panel, but probably used on other specs, so left in place.

[dmr]

The unconnected connector links a temperature switch in the thermostat housing to a solenoid in the injection pump to do a cold start advance to reduce smoke on a cold engine. In my opinion (based on connecting it and listening to the engine) it does nothing at all. I suspect because Beta work this engine at lower revs then JD intended that there is not enough pressure in the injection pump to push the advance piston. So leave it disconnected and don't worry about it.

The white wire drives the solenoid in the injection pump that allows the engine to run and stops it when you turn it off so I am really surprised thats its not connected. Are you sure of this? 

The throttle cable and return spring look a bit non-standard. Is your engine controlled by a Morse cable or a rod arrangement?

55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

White is the British colour code for ignition switch controlled feed with no fuse, so I would surmise that it once fed something that needed supplying only when the ignition is on, using the pump terminal as a junction bx. I think that I can see another white wire on it as well as a red.

 

Unless one really knows the engine and Beta wiring, you would have to consult the wiring diagram to see if they need connection to anything, but I suspect they are redundant on your spec of engine and panel, but probably used on other specs, so left in place.

Its the ignition feed to the injection pump solenoid so you are correct.  I had a very quick read of the new wiring advice document from the IET (ex IEE) and was surprised to read that white wires should be avoided.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Its the ignition feed to the injection pump solenoid so you are correct.  I had a very quick read of the new wiring advice document from the IET (ex IEE) and was surprised to read that white wires should be avoided.

 

I suspect that is because white in the US and possibly the Far East was used to denote negative and black positive - don't ask me why, but on Fords it caught me out a few times.

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I suspect that is because white in the US and possibly the Far East was used to denote negative and black positive - don't ask me why, but on Fords it caught me out a few times.

Black means death so that is why Americans have the black wire as positive, Evan on AC it is live

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Black means death so that is why Americans have the black wire as positive, Evan on AC it is live

 

But remember "Black wires matter"

[RJE]

Thanks again all, so to answer the questions:

 

white wire def not connected to anything so guess solenoid gets supply by a different cable, will have to trace. 
I have a throttle wheel control hence the non-standard connection! 

[dmr]

I assume the engine stops and starts on the ignition key? A multimeter should confirm that the white wire has 12 volts when the ignition is on (and you can just hear the solenoid click if you get close).  I can just see a red wire which I assumed was going to the disconnected connector, but maybe it goes somewhere else?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

I assume the engine stops and starts on the ignition key? A multimeter should confirm that the white wire has 12 volts when the ignition is on (and you can just hear the solenoid click if you get close).  I can just see a red wire which I assumed was going to the disconnected connector, but maybe it goes somewhere else?

 

I also think the red wire from the connector runs, via a bend, to the terminal on the fuel pump, so I assumed that was another feed to something that needs 12V when the ignition is turned on.

[RJE]

Engine stops/starts from ignition key. I’ll check it all out when I am next there (hopefully same time as check thermostat and replace injectors). From attached Beta wiring diagram may be for fuel stop/start solenoid that is not required - it does terminated around the fuel lift pump area. 

[dmr]

Can you physically trace the white wire from the injection pump to the free end, or does it go inside a harness? If the engine runs and stops then that wire really must go from the IP to the correct pin on the multiway connector.

Just maybe a previous owner (or even Beta) has made provision for installing an electric lift pimp to replace the mechanical pump and the free white wire is Tee'd into the IP white wire to support this.  If so make sure it can't short to ground.

Your wiring diagram just confirms that the white wire is for an "energise to run" solenoid, though if you search you will find lots of slightly different Beta wiring diagrams.

[RJE]

White wire does look to be an add-on - slightly different gauge to all the others and not in the loom. It’s well insulated at the open end. Will put it down to history and move on as engine stops and starts as expected 😊

[RJE]

Injectors removed - pop tested and all are working to 240 psi - engineer said they can’t be reset which seems odd as can see screw on top, but he’s the expert 😊

Anyway they don’t look too bad to my untrained eye so they will be going back in, after checking tappet clearances and replacing thermostat. 
If no change in the smoke issue after that guess will have to live with it and accept it’s one of the smokey JD3s! 

[RJE]

[dmr]

They all look very clean, I have seen mine much much worse than this with a mountain of carbon on the tips. You could remove that small amount of carbon from yours with a small brass brush.

The John Deere manual says adjust the pressure as required, maybe your engineer is just saying that its more trouble than its worth?  or just maybe there is some wisdom about not messing with old injectors?

If you can get hold (and afford) HVO then that should give a good reduction in smoke.

 

When does your engine smoke (all the time/when cold/when idling and very light load etc)????. Do you have any oil consumption?

Forgot to say, go very slow and careful putting the spill rail nuts back onto those T pieces, its brass nuts onto aluminium T's with the rubber inserts trying to make alignment difficult, very easy to cross thread them. I also find getting the injector pipe back onto number 1 injector can be tricky, the pipe never quite lines up and needs some force to get it to fit and seal correctly.

[RJE]

Thanks - will give them a light clean before re-installing. Engine smokes all the time again, but was almost smoke-free for the first three-four days after injectors were replaced / cleaned previously (not sure what the marina engineer actually did and no records seem to exist - unfortunately I couldn't be around when the work was carried out). No oil consumption, never had to top-up between changes.

As was previously mentioned the difference between the Beta recommended 265 bar and 240 bar is probably not really significant anyway.......

Will try and locate a source of HVO as would be nice to be smoke-free for a while at least - is it okay to mix?