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Correct connection to gas bottle


starman

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I don’t see the benefits in a changeover unit so I thought I’d have the ultra-simple flexy pipe and regulator set up for the final connection between bubble tester and gas bottles but what does this sentence in BSS regs mean - specifically the ‘pre-assembled’ bit?

“All LPG hoses on the high-pressure side...must consist of pre-assembled lengths of hose of proprietary manufacture.”

I ask because regulators and pipes etc seem to be sold separately not ‘pre-assembled’. 

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I think it just means that your pigtail(s) from the gas bottle to the regulator must be fitted as pre-assembled units made according to the required standards.

 

The benefits of a changeover kit is that you're not out by the gas locker changing bottles in bad weather when you're trying to make a cup of tea or you're in the middle of cooking. I prefer a manual changeover kit because then I know when one bottle has run out. Yes, I'm still out by the gas locker when a bottle runs out but it's just a quick changeover with no spanners are involved, and I can get around to sorting out the bottles in daylight when I feel like it. 

 

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A pre assembled hose of propriety manufacture means a hose made by a proper company and assembled using suitable components.  Like you would buy from a reputable supplier, eg a hose with suitable brass connectors at either end.  It specifically excludes home made bits of kit, meaning I can’t just push a fitting onto a bit of rubber pipe and fix it with a couple of jubilee clips or tie wraps etc.

Edited by Chewbacka
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30 minutes ago, starman said:

I don’t see the benefits in a changeover unit so I thought I’d have the ultra-simple flexy pipe and regulator set up for the final connection between bubble tester and gas bottles but what does this sentence in BSS regs mean - specifically the ‘pre-assembled’ bit?

“All LPG hoses on the high-pressure side...must consist of pre-assembled lengths of hose of proprietary manufacture.”

I ask because regulators and pipes etc seem to be sold separately not ‘pre-assembled’. 

 

I think your intention is that the regulator should be mounted on the cylinder, in which case the hose in your arrangement is on the low-pressure side of the regulator and the "pre-assembled" stipulation doesn't apply. The time you'll see the benefit of, at least, a manual changeover valve is when the gas runs out halfway through a shower in December and you're fiddling with a gas spanner, freezing cold and with shampoo dripping in your eyes.

 

MP.

 

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32 minutes ago, starman said:

 I thought I’d have the ultra-simple flexy pipe and regulator set up for the final connection between bubble tester and gas bottles 

 

If it is 'downstream' of the regulator you can use your own hose.

If it is between the regulator and the gas cylinder you must only use commercially manufactured pig-tails. Pressure tested and marked up.

 

Assuming your bubble tester is on the 'low-pressure' side then its fine to use 'home made' hoses.

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If it is 'downstream' of the regulator you can use your own hose.

If it is between the regulator and the gas cylinder you must only use commercially manufactured pig-tails. Pressure tested and marked up.

 

Assuming your bubble tester is on the 'low-pressure' side then its fine to use 'home made' hoses.

 

Do you mean inside the gas locker Alan? I thought that (where permitted) flexible hoses to connect appliances on the low pressure side inside the boat also had to be proprietary hoses?

Edited by blackrose
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9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Do you mean inside the gas locker Alan? I thought that (where permitted) flexible hoses to connect appliances on the low pressure side inside the boat also had to be proprietary hoses?

 

Yes, inside the gas locker is fine for home assembled hose on to fir tree fittings with hose clips. Think consequences of a leak. Inside the cabin = kaboom. Inside a BSS compliant gas locker means the gas leaks out over the water and you lose a cylinder full of gas, so the only damage is to your purse.

Jen Not Alan!

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22 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Do you mean inside the gas locker Alan? I thought that (where permitted) flexible hoses to connect appliances on the low pressure side inside the boat also had to be proprietary hoses?

 

 

You are (partly) correct.

 

I think this is the relevant  BSS section

 

All low pressure LPG hose connections:

 must be accessible for inspection; and,

must be part of pre‐made hose assemblies of suitable proprietary manufacture or use suitable nozzles secured by crimped or worm‐drive clips; and,

 must not be made using hose clamps fixed by spring tension; and,

 must be free of any missing components, cracks, burrs or rough edges or signs of other damage or deterioration; and,

 must not be so narrow as to cut into the hose; and,

 where made with crimped or worm‐drive clamps, the clamps must be suitably sized, that is, not so oversized that the band forms an elliptical shape, or so undersized that inadequate compression is achieved; and,

 be appropriately tight, that is, not so loose that the hose can be pulled forward or back under light manual force nor so tight that the hose is excessively pinched.

 

 

 

One of my boats gas system is fully BSSC complaint but has 'rubber hose' throughout the system (no copper piping) to :

 

BSS 7.9.6

Do ‘all‐hose’ systems comply fully with ISO 10239?   R

NOTE – ‘all‐hose’ systems are those not using rigid pipework and will generally be found on imported boats, CE marked to the RCD, where the builder has chosen to apply ISO 10239.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Ah yes of course! I am being dim - I’m on the low pressure side so I just need to use the correct spec pipe and stop worrying!

40 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

The time you'll see the benefit of, at least, a manual changeover valve is when the gas runs out halfway through a shower in December and you're fiddling with a gas spanner, freezing cold and with shampoo dripping in your eyes.

 

MP.

 

I think I would be cursing almost as much if I had to get out of the shower and turn a change over lever. As for an auto-changeover - it doesn’t bear thinking about what The Boss would say if the second bottle ran out half way through cooking Sunday dinner. 

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6 minutes ago, starman said:

Ah yes of course! I am being dim - I’m on the low pressure side so I just need to use the correct spec pipe and stop worrying!

I think I would be cursing almost as much if I had to get out of the shower and turn a change over lever. As for an auto-changeover - it doesn’t bear thinking about what The Boss would say if the second bottle ran out half way through cooking Sunday dinner. 

 

You simply look for the little red-flag in the window as part of your daily checks.

If the red-flag is 'flying' you change the bottle on that side.

 

It really is quite simple and you never either run out of gas, or, have to get out of the shower to change cylinders over.

 

 

 

 

You Know It makes Sense.png

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24 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Yes, orange. 37 mbar it is then. Thank you.

Be aware that many regulators you buy from chandlers state that they are not for marine use!  I think it refers to them getting wet with salt water, perfectly OK in a gas locker on a canal boat however.

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You'll also need to match the flow rate. A cheaper one may not flow as much gas as the one you have and say, not be able to feed enough gas for all the burners on a cooker. Replaced mine last year and did this as the system and regulator were fitted originally by a gas safe registered fitter with the appropriate LPG and boat qualifications, so I knew it was probably OK!

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I use an auto-changeover valve, but with one gas bottle turned off at its isolating valve, and a label indicating the bottle in use so that I empty one bottle first.

 

That way, when the bottle in use runs out, I only have to open the isolating valve on the top of the other bottle to restore service.

 

I then have a full bottles worth of gas to remember to replace the empty bottle.

Edited by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space
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4 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You'll also need to match the flow rate. A cheaper one may not flow as much gas as the one you have and say, not be able to feed enough gas for all the burners on a cooker. Replaced mine last year and did this as the system and regulator were fitted originally by a gas safe registered fitter with the appropriate LPG and boat qualifications, so I knew it was probably OK!

The small regulators usually attached to a piece of orange hose and directly fit into the bottle pass about 1.5 kg per hour. A 3/8 bsp regulator attached to a changeover valve will pass about 4kg per hour. An audit of your appliances will confirm your potential usage, and also bear in mind, too small a throughput will restrict the pressure at the appliances. This should be checked by the examiner at BSS time.

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9 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

The small regulators usually attached to a piece of orange hose and directly fit into the bottle pass about 1.5 kg per hour. A 3/8 bsp regulator attached to a changeover valve will pass about 4kg per hour. An audit of your appliances will confirm your potential usage, and also bear in mind, too small a throughput will restrict the pressure at the appliances. This should be checked by the examiner at BSS time.

My boat has a 4Kg/hr regulator that attaches to the bottle.

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18 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

But with an 8mm orange hose connecting it to your gas line, I doubt it would deliver a full 4kg.

Don't know I've never measured it. What equipment  do you use to measure gas flow rates?  It is what the gas fitter put in. Doubt he has ever measured it either, but it supplies the gas needed for the cooker at the other end of the boat with all flames burning and pressure within the limits, which is all that matters, where a smaller one may not. Might be over specced, might not.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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