Charging, inverter and solar.

[Guest]

I am helping an ex colleague who is fitting out his 55ft NB.

 

His budget for the electrics on the charging and inverter side of things is around £700, £900 at a push.

 

I have persauded him to think seperate for the charger and inverter rather than combi and I'm guiding him towards Victron products.

 

But the choice is bewildering and the features seem to have moved on considerably since we owned.

 

His mains needs are a zanussi washing machine and a small microwave. He is happy to only use either of those only when underway or on shore power.

 

Leisure batteries are 3 x 110 ah lead acids, nothing fancy.

 

So, where and what does he go with product wise?, not forgetting he wants some solar too.

 

Cheers.

[matty40s]

 

Just now, matty40s said:

If that's his budget then I suggest steering away from Victron.

You mention solar in the title, but not really expanding on it in your post, is he expecting a MPPT controller in that budget too?

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by matty40s

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

If that's his budget then I suggest steering away from Victron.

You mention solar in the title, but not in your post, is he expecting a MPPT controller in that budget too?

 

 

If poss yes.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

His budget for the electrics on the charging and inverter side of things is around £700, £900 at a push.

 

A victron 2000Kva inverter could take all of that budget. (£835)

 

Victron Energy 12V Phoenix Sine Wave Power Inverter 2000VA (asap-supplies.com)

 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A victron 2000Kva inverter could take all of that budget. (£835)

 

Victron Energy 12V Phoenix Sine Wave Power Inverter 2000VA (asap-supplies.com)

 

 

 

Mmm.

 

Looks like a rethink is needed.

 

He obviously cant actually get to the boat at the moment so he could save a bit more, perhaps?

 

So something cheaper then in case, he cannot.

 

Sterling perhaps?

 

I think he might have to pass on the washer and get a small twin tub, and ditch the microwave all together.

[Guest]

What about.

 

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/Item/PIN122160000

 

And

 

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/Item/BPC122042022

 

 

[bill brown]

Don't forget to budget for the cost of fitting it ?.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Is this boat usually on a shore line? How often and for how long is it away from shore? Is it using a mains, or 12V fridge? I'd suggest going for a battery charger and solar MPPT first, as keeping the batteries charged is more of a priority with a limited amount of money available. You can't take charge out of a battery to drive an inverter unless you have the means to put it back in again. Then save up for an inverter big enough to run the gadgets. Lower power mains gadgets means a smaller cheaper inverter. If the fridge is 12V and the washer is replaced with a twin tub, then a 500W inverter could handle it. If the fridge is mains, then a 1000W inverter could do it. Learn to cook without a microwave, on a gas cooker. A smaller inverter is much cheaper. Get a small inverter from a good manufacturer, like Victron, or Mastervolt, than a large inverter from a poor manufacturer. Don't buy no name Ebay stuff. A small inverter from a good manufacturer will be more reliable and more efficient, wasting less energy.

Jen

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Is this boat usually on a shore line? How often and for how long is it away from shore? Is it using a mains, or 12V fridge? I'd suggest going for a battery charger and solar MPPT first, as keeping the batteries charged is more of a priority with a limited amount of money available. You can't take charge out of a battery to drive an inverter unless you have the means to put it back in again. Then save up for an inverter big enough to run the gadgets. Lower power mains gadgets means a smaller cheaper inverter. If the fridge is 12V and the washer is replaced with a twin tub, then a 500W inverter could handle it. If the fridge is mains, then a 1000W inverter could do it. Learn to cook without a microwave, on a gas cooker. A smaller inverter is much cheaper. Get a small inverter from a good manufacturer, like Victron, or Mastervolt, than a large inverter from a poor manufacturer. Don't buy no name Ebay stuff. A small inverter from a good manufacturer will be more reliable and more efficient, wasting less energy.

Jen

 

It will be on shore power whan its left but will be out probably for two weeks at the most for about  the next  couple of years. Unlike me he still works.

 

I had been suggesting a mains fridge but he'll happily think about 12v. A twin tub is not a deal breaker either, well just need to re think how its accomodated/stored.

 

All of this being done by email at the moment for obvious reasons.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I had been suggesting a mains fridge but he'll happily think about 12v.

 

 

£600

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

£600+

 

I know, its a trade off.

 

He could get a mains one and spend more on the electrics.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

22 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

It will be on shore power whan its left but will be out probably for two weeks at the most for about  the next  couple of years. Unlike me he still works.

 

I had been suggesting a mains fridge but he'll happily think about 12v. A twin tub is not a deal breaker either, well just need to re think how its accomodated/stored.

 

All of this being done by email at the moment for obvious reasons.

If he is just using the boat for holiday cruises at this stage, then taking enough clothes for the trip, plus maybe a launderette visit, or just not worrying about the smell could be enough for now. No need for a washing machine at all.

If he hasn't already got a fridge, then as @Alan de Enfield intimates, the difference in price between a mains and a 12V one pays much of the cost of the inverter to run the mains one, plus you now have an inverter too!

Jen

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If he is just using the boat for holiday cruises at this stage, then taking enough clothes for the trip, plus maybe a launderette visit, or just not worrying about the smell could be enough for now. No need for a washing machine at all.

If he hasn't already got a fridge, then as @Alan de Enfield intimates, the difference in price between a mains and a 12V one pays much of the cost of the inverter to run the mains one, plus you now have an inverter too!

Jen

 

It will be a live aboard in the future though, just taking a winter mooring in a marina. Hes keen to ensure provision for one.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

It will be a live aboard in the future though, just taking a winter mooring in a marina. Hes keen to ensure provision for one.

That's in the future though. With a limited budget it is a matter of getting the most useful and important things now, then adding the luxuries for comfortable living full time after saving up more. You can put up with things for a fortnights cruising that you wouldn't living on board.

First priority would be keeping the batteries in good condition by regular charging. A dead battery bank from lack of charging is going to be a big expense, so to be avoided. If it is on a shore lead, then a battery charger solves that. When out, then cruising will do it. Solar would be lower priority, if a shore line is available. Then an inverter to get mains. A 1000W inverter will drive a mains fridge. 2000W for an automatic washing machine. Nothing to stop a washing machine being fitted now. It can be used on shore power fine, just not while away. For summer cruising for a couple of weeks, a fridge is more important than a washing machine.

Jen

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

That's in the future though. With a limited budget it is a matter of getting the most useful and important things now, then adding the luxuries for comfortable living full time after saving up more. You can put up with things for a fortnights cruising that you wouldn't living on board.

First priority would be keeping the batteries in good condition by regular charging. A dead battery bank from lack of charging is going to be a big expense, so to be avoided. If it is on a shore lead, then a battery charger solves that. When out, then cruising will do it. Solar would be lower priority, if a shore line is available. Then an inverter to get mains. A 1000W inverter will drive a mains fridge. 2000W for an automatic washing machine.

Jen

 

Yes good point solar could be deffered. He could still install the connections for a twin tub though but actually get one when he needs one later.

[Guest]

Thanks all.

 

Hes settled on a Victron Centaur charger at £350 and  Victron Smart Phoenix 1600 kwh inverter at £660.

 

This pushed him well over budget for now.

 

The solar is deffered as is the washing machine but it will just be a twin tub, not automatic. Well create the points for it though.

 

We'll need to think a bit more about the fridge.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, bill brown said:

Don't forget to budget for the cost of fitting it ?.

 

Cheers, yes but.

 

Hes on a budget so as Ive said many times on here if you want to own a boat you need to do as much as you can for yourself.

 

[LadyG]

The idea that he sets a budget as a first priority is weird, it might be the way it is written, the first priority is to have a safe and basic system which can be added to when both funds and requirements are identified.

To my mind, a good cooker eg Thetford is ideal, but I like their glass topped gas cooker rings with small sink, very swish, though not for family cooking. 

I would go for a top quality 240volt fridge, checking the power consumption. This means a biggish invertor. Make sure the invertor does not suck out every last drop from those rather limited batteries. I would have thought that with a fridge, he will need more batteries, but he may think that replacement every two years is the way to go, trouble is, the last two months of his batteries are going to very annoying. I have nominal 600ah, and a very inefficient fridge, it is switched off five months of the year. I never let the batteries go anywhere near 50%, the thought of forking out another £500 in the next five years is just too painful. 

Even in lockdown I can get two fresh food deliveries per week for £1 per week (morrisons mid week pass). You have to be adaptable if you are living on a boat, or be prepared to keep throwing money at the problem day after day. 

A smallish solar set up will replenish all the batteries in summer. Its just so cost efficient, it can't be swept aside, imho. 

If he is still working he can charge up his portable stuff at work! 

I believe there are some tiny twin tubs approx £100, I have a full size washing machine, but out on the cut I elected to use a launderette as I don't want wet bedding etc hanging around. Even in the marina, I used the launderette, so the washing machine has never been used. I wash my socks etc every day and hang them up in the shower, or on the bathroom radiator. My solid fuel stove has a gravity fed radiator, large bore copper pipes run all the way to the calorifier,, keeping the bed aired. The boat is both warm and dry, absolutely essential, imho. I always have hot water, and even in the coldest weather I was toasty. 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by LadyG

[Murflynn]

37 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 I wash my socks etc every day and hang them up in the shower, or on the bathroom radiator.

 

 

?  ...................  too much information, dear Lady/Countess/Marchioness/Baroness/whatever    ................  ?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is a galvanic isolator. If the boat is going to be on a shore line for much of the time this is going to be important. Also a small consumer unit with RCD. More money!

Jen

Edited February 22, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is a galvanic isolator. If the boat is going to be on a shore line for much of the time this is going to be important. Also a small consumer unit with RCD. More money!

Jen

 

Cheers yes hes budgeted for those.

[cheesegas]

If you're on a budget, scour ebay, gumtree and facebook marketplace every few hours (yes, this takes a lot of time!) for new listings, and set up email/phone alerts on all three. Bargains get snapped up within a matter of hours. You can buy second hand, high quality stuff for a fraction of new. Don't make the mistake of buying cheap, low quality things second hand though as it's false economy.

 

I also had budget in mind; for under £1000 and over the period of 2 months, I got a 12v Danfoss compressor fridge, 3kg Zanussi washer, Epever 60a MPPT solar controller, 3 almost new Exide marine batteries, Sterling 240v 30a charger, an older model Sterling alternator regulator and then spent £300 worth of electrical bits and wiring to connect it all up. Altec Automotive and 12voltplanet are the best I've found.

 

You do need to be handy with tinkering though, the fridge for example had a broken condenser fan so it wasn't cooling properly, but that cost £8 to replace from a computer parts supplier.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

If you're on a budget, scour ebay, gumtree and facebook marketplace every few hours (yes, this takes a lot of time!) for new listings, and set up email/phone alerts on all three. Bargains get snapped up within a matter of hours. You can buy second hand, high quality stuff for a fraction of new. Don't make the mistake of buying cheap, low quality things second hand though as it's false economy.

 

I also had budget in mind; for under £1000 and over the period of 2 months, I got a 12v Danfoss compressor fridge, 3kg Zanussi washer, Epever 60a MPPT solar controller, 3 almost new Exide marine batteries, Sterling 240v 30a charger, an older model Sterling alternator regulator and then spent £300 worth of electrical bits and wiring to connect it all up. Altec Automotive and 12voltplanet are the best I've found.

 

You do need to be handy with tinkering though, the fridge for example had a broken condenser fan so it wasn't cooling properly, but that cost £8 to replace from a computer parts supplier.

 

Funny enough I managed to get him a Lec under counter fridge for £45 off Facebook, nearly new too. They had bought it but very soon after re configured their kitchen so it was then no good.

[cheesegas]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Funny enough I managed to get him a Lec under counter fridge for £45 off Facebook, nearly new too. They had bought it but very soon after re configured their kitchen so it was then no good.

Yeah, it seems that bulky stuff like fridges and sofas are really cheap second hand because not everyone wants to pick them up, or has transport. Years ago I moved into an unfurnished flat, borrowed a 7.5t truck from work and filled the place with free/cheap furniture after a couple of weekends of driving.

 

Don't skimp on the wire gauge and connector quality though, it'll only come back to bite you when it comes to upgrading the system or adding stuff later. At worst, it could be unsafe...