Narrowboat Vs House electrical usage

[frangar]

Ive just had to sort a new supplier for my mothers house which meant going through her electrical consumption for the year and out of interest I thought I would compare it with what we have used on the Hook up for the boat as we have been onboard more or less continually since getting back on the mooring in Sept which is unusual as we are usually working away a lot.

 

Turns out its fairly similar for a year

3 Bed House with one occupant 2221 kWh, (Actual reading)

Boat with 2 occupants 2777 kWh (Usage is estimated for the year based on reading from Sept-Feb)

 

Boat does have Immersion & a low wattage oil fired rad on for some of the time which does increase usage...House has gas CH...But we are probably going to burn just over a Tonne of solid fuel  on the boat this winter.

 

This probably says more about the amount of electrical toys we have aboard than anything else!..we dont have a Microwave or washing machine etc tho.

 

It also proves what Ive always said in that running costs of a live aboard boat arent much different to a house really.

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by frangar

[Slim]

The only difference there could be regarding electricity is the 'standing charge'.  Electricity itself cannot be resold at a profit. A rather limited sample on which to base house/boat comparisons.

[frangar]

4 minutes ago, Slim said:

The only difference there could be regarding electricity is the 'standing charge'.  Electricity itself cannot be resold at a profit. A rather limited sample on which to base house/boat comparisons.

"House" electric does also have a standing charge although probably not as much as a marina. This is why I used the actual units used rather than any cost.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, frangar said:

"House" electric does also have a standing charge although probably not as much as a marina. This is why I used the actual units used rather than any cost.

 

The actual 'costs' will be much higher on a boat.

The cost of 'generating' your own is probably 10X the cost of 'mains'.

 

Some years ago someone did work out the cost of boat generation - frightening.

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The actual 'costs' will be much higher on a boat.

The cost of 'generating' your own is probably 10X the cost of 'mains'.

 

Some years ago someone did work out the cost of boat generation - frightening.

Indeed...I might see what we use when cruising without the immersion/oil fired rad. We do have solar which means we didnt need to run the engine just for generating last year when off the mooring....Ive got an onboard consumption meter on the 240v system so its quite easy to work it out.

[nb Innisfree]

Innisfree full time ccing used to be 1.6 - 2kwh daily, our 3 bed semi about 9kwh daily (double that now we have an EV) 

[nb Innisfree]

We used 100 litres of diesel per month, which was used to cruise and recharge approx 2 to 2.5 hrs daily

[frangar]

30 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Innisfree full time ccing used to be 1.6 - 2kwh daily, our 3 bed semi about 9kwh daily (double that now we have an EV) 

I have to say I’m more wasteful when on the hook up. Lights get left on....kit sits in stand by. The immersion is on most of the day etc. When we are out I’m much more economical 

[GUMPY]

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

I have to say I’m more wasteful when on the hook up. Lights get left on....kit sits in stand by. The immersion is on most of the day etc. When we are out I’m much more economical 

That must be free electric

If I'm paying  its off when  not in use.

[matty40s]

I've recently stuck my immersion on a timer, on 3 hours, twice a day. I will see if it makes any difference in a months time.

[restlessnomad]

am surprised that you have same electric consumption in 1 bed boat as 3 bed house.. 

[frangar]

46 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I've recently stuck my immersion on a timer, on 3 hours, twice a day. I will see if it makes any difference in a months time.

I found it didn't really....ive always had it going off on a timer overnight

 

34 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

am surprised that you have same electric consumption in 1 bed boat as 3 bed house.. 

So was I if I'm honest!! But I do have the Immersion and oil rad which I guess adds up...The house has LED lights and the washing machine there has a hot fill from the gas fired CH..and with one person the dishwasher only runs every couple of days...and my mother now loves asking google to turn the lights off when not needed...in fact she has entire conversations with the google smart speaker.....

[LadyG]

I think I have a similar total consumption of energy., flat v boat.

On land, I had electric heating and lighting, but the whole flat was kept at a very even temperature by the simple strategy of having most internal doors open, most of the time.  So I compensated with puting on warm clothing. Annual cost £400 per annum.

On a boat, in  marina., I resorted to solid fuel, and backed up with a bit of electric for heating.  Average cost in winter £25-30 per week. Annual cost heat and light , and gas for cooking. £450.

Out on the cut, my fuel consumption is highest, but I am warmer, cost of coal, logs, diesel is approx £30-35 per week from November to February, I am warmer but less controllable. I wear shorts and T shirts instead of jeans and a cardigan.  I think energy costs excluding propulsion, about £650 per annum. Of course this year I am inside nearly all the time, when back to normal, I should cut enegy costs to about £575.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by LadyG

[IanD]

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The actual 'costs' will be much higher on a boat.

The cost of 'generating' your own is probably 10X the cost of 'mains'.

 

Some years ago someone did work out the cost of boat generation - frightening.

Generating your own electricity using an onboard diesel generator gives you about 2.5kWh from 1l of diesel. Running the engine to charge batteries via an alternator is a lot worse, maybe about 1-1.5kWh depending on size of alternators. It's easy to work out from this what the cost is depending what you pay for diesel, but for sure it's a lot higher than plugging in.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

Generating your own electricity using an onboard diesel generator gives you about 2.5kWh from 1l of diesel. Running the engine to charge batteries via an alternator is a lot worse, maybe about 1-1.5kWh depending on size of alternators. It's easy to work out from this what the cost is depending what you pay for diesel, but for sure it's a lot higher than plugging in.

 

Plus

Engine wear & tear, servicing costs etc.

 

Some years ago someone did did a very thorough costing of costs of electricity by various methods - I seem to remember that the 'true' cost of engine (alternator) generation was over £1.50/Kw

[IanD]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Plus

Engine wear & tear, servicing costs etc.

 

Some years ago someone did did a very thorough costing of costs of electricity by various methods - I seem to remember that the 'true' cost of engine (alternator) generation was over £1.50/Kw

Of course, I was only counting fuel and that's bad enough. Add on extra engine costs like you said and it become worse still. If you add on the cost of buying a generator it becomes truly horrendous...

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, IanD said:

Of course, I was only counting fuel and that's bad enough. Add on extra engine costs like you said and it become worse still. If you add on the cost of buying a generator it becomes truly horrendous...

 

Found this from 2014, this wasn't the one I was thiking of but ......................

 

Thread from @Robbo  based on a 4KV diesel generator :

 

 

 

Just done some quick figures on charging my batteries and how much it costs per kwh that some people may find useful.

 

Using a 4kw diesel generator that uses about .7litre at 25% load.

Diesel cost - 84.9p

 

I run the batteries down to around 65% before charging, and do a full charge once a week. With running the generator about 3 times a week, total around 8hrs, most of this is to get the batteries to 100%, other times it's 65%-90% which doesn't take long.

 

Ah's used is from a Victron BMC602, and I take the readings before and after charging so I know how many amps I've used in between charging.

 

I've calculated around £1.26 per kwh.

 

I may unhook the generator from the main tank and run from a jerry can as I'm guessing from the tech specs the average load usage the generator uses at the moment.

 

Anyone else done similar calculations?

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Markblox]

Just been reading this last post and I thought I would give my calculations based on my system and the current price of derv at 1:60 a L.  I have just had fitted a Mastervolt Alpa Pro external regulator on my 175A beta 43 alternator and it can now pump out a steady 140A which is 2KW or two units of electrical energy per hour and that will use about 1.3L/h.   My records show that when cruising I never get below 1.6L an hour so I reckon at a fast idle 1.3L/h is about right.  That equates to £2.08p an hour or £1.04p per kWh.  I have lithiums so it all goes in and I also have plenty of solar so never have to run the engine for 8 months of the year to charge thank God.  

 

I reckon anyone with a smaller alternator which is restricting the output due to L/A batteries having a high internal resistance and also going into absorption once above 80-85% SOC will probably be costing up to £5 a unit at todays diesel prices and that's with healthy batteries!

 

Frightening,  and bear in mind that to keep LA healthy you should charge them up to a float charge can take up to ten hours.  Most boaters on the cut in the winter would be better off looking after the batteries by pulling into a marina overnight once every couple of weeks and paying them £15 and plugging in.

[GUMPY]

So far this year we have only used 581kWh from the grid, on track to be well under 1000kWh for the whole year. Have also generated  4200kWh so far this year of which we have exported 2700kWh to the grid. The amount of money I get from export covers my import and hopefully will go a long way to cover my gas bill but I won't know that until new year. So for me as far as energy is concerned it's now way cheaper to live in a house. 

 

[Tonka]

Just now, Loddon said:

So far this year we have only used 581kWh from the grid, on track to be well under 1000kWh for the whole year. Have also generated  4200kWh so far this year of which we have exported 2700kWh to the grid. The amount of money I get from export covers my import and hopefully will go a long way to cover my gas bill but I won't know that until new year. So for me as far as energy is concerned it's now way cheaper to live in a house. 

 

Just a shame that the Solar Panel Power Providers do not get the same amount of money as the electricity companies get

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Just a shame that the Solar Panel Power Providers do not get the same amount of money as the electricity companies get

 I was getting 30p/kWh on certain days  over the summer which is only 3p below my highest import cost, I'm on a half hour variable tarriff for import and export.

 Comparatively very little generation comes from solar, wind is a far higher percentage so on still days the price paid to us goes up.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Loddon

[David Mack]

13 minutes ago, Loddon said:

So far this year we have only used 581kWh from the grid, on track to be well under 1000kWh for the whole year. Have also generated  4200kWh so far this year of which we have exported 2700kWh to the grid. The amount of money I get from export covers my import and hopefully will go a long way to cover my gas bill but I won't know that until new year. So for me as far as energy is concerned it's now way cheaper to live in a house. 

 

And how much did the whole installation cost you?

[GUMPY]

26 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And how much did the whole installation cost you?

Not that it matters since it will have added more than it cost to the value of the house, but it was £8.1k.

If you offset what I am being paid/saving electricity it's going to take just over 6 years to pay it off equivalent to a 14%pa return on investment.

A win win situation as far as I am concerned.

 

ETA system was installed in January, you couldn't get it for under £10k now and there is a 6-9 month wait for installers.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Loddon

[Bod]

@Loddon Your home system, is it a pure generate then export, or similar to a typical Narrowboat, generate, battery store, inverter, personal use.

I am considering doing the same on the house, solar panels, battery bank, inverter, for our own use.  Trying to be off-grid  for a large part of the year.

 

Bod

 

[GUMPY]

It has Panels, Hybrid Inverter, battery

At the moment it's set up to prioritise self use, then battery and finally export.

Any time there is not enough solar it runs on batteries and if they are depleted it runs on grid.

When the grid goes off it shuts down so I am adding another output from the inverter to run one ring main and the lights, this is limited to 16amp but should get me by any power cuts🤔

If you are intending to go off grid totally you will need a big battery 15kVA , my 5.8kVA lasts about 12hrs on low use and the batteries are the most expensive part about £2.5k for my battery.

If it's connected to the grid in any form you will need to get it installed professionally since if not you won't get paid for export.

Since my tarriff changes rates every half hour from now on if needed I will be charging from the grid when the cost is low <12p and using the battery when it's high >30p.

It does become a bit all consuming since I am always looking to maximise the use of the system.

 

My average grid use during the summer was 0.2kWh a day