Guidance for visitors to the Fenland Waterways

[Marc Hartley]

I have just today had an email from Kev Russell, Navigation Officer for the Middle Level Commissioners, confirming that "If you have a CRT Gold licence you will be covered on the Middle Level waters until January 2022.  After this you will need to have a Middle Level licence for the remaining 3 months of our year or renew your CRT Gold and have a visitor licence or the new Anglian pass to use our water."

So good news, at least for this year, 2021, a Gold Licence is sufficient for the Middle Level.

[Scholar Gypsy]

9 minutes ago, Marc Hartley said:

I have just today had an email from Kev Russell, Navigation Officer for the Middle Level Commissioners, confirming that "If you have a CRT Gold licence you will be covered on the Middle Level waters until January 2022.  After this you will need to have a Middle Level licence for the remaining 3 months of our year or renew your CRT Gold and have a visitor licence or the new Anglian pass to use our water."

So good news, at least for this year, 2021, a Gold Licence is sufficient for the Middle Level.

Thank you for that. That is quite generous of them given they get no money from the gold licence scheme. I am not sure I will update the website, as it is complicated enough already ....  I won't be asking for a refund for the Anglian Pass I bought last week

[nbfiresprite]

Any one who brought their Middle Level licence before the end of December last year. Will get 25 percent off this years licence.

They who failed to buy a licence last year will not get the discount, Instead will get the iron fist of enforcrment.

[republicscented]

I have looked at the link you published, but not spotted the info about a visitor licence for the ML.  I would have thought typically you would want to have a couple of days each way to get between the Nene and the Gt Ouse, is that going to cost you £75 or £100 (as you can only buy a year)?  I guess that is not ridiculous, but if you compare with the Avon at £50 for a week through licence, you don't get much for your money on the ML.

 

[nbfiresprite]

16 minutes ago, republicscented said:

I have looked at the link you published, but not spotted the info about a visitor licence for the ML.  I would have thought typically you would want to have a couple of days each way to get between the Nene and the Gt Ouse, is that going to cost you £75 or £100 (as you can only buy a year)?  I guess that is not ridiculous, but if you compare with the Avon at £50 for a week through licence, you don't get much for your money on the ML.

 

You can buy daily and weekly licences for the Middle Level at Stanground and Salter Lode locks or direct from The Middle Level Offices.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Daily licences for the ML are 10-15 a day, the detail is on the link.  If you buy an EA visitors licence for the Nene and Great Ouse, then:

 

• you are not able to buy an Anglian pass. It is only available for someone who has an annual licence (from EA, MLC, Camcon, or EA/CRT gold);
• there is no way to buy a visitors licence for the Cam above Bottisham Lock 

[jetzi]

Thanks for a really informative guide @Scholar Gypsy!

I have been desperate to visit the Anglian waterways ever since I started boating.

 

I have a few questions that are specific to my situation. I'm a continuous moorer. I want to go everywhere but I like to do it as slow as possible because I want to see more of the places I'm in. I tend to cruise around once per week. Ideally I'd prefer to spend 4, 5 or even 6 months on the Anglian network, perhaps over summer next year.

1. It sounds like there are very few moorings available, even though I would join FOTRN and GOBA. On the Gt Ouse system you mention that the moorings are all 48 hours, are the moorings on the rest of the Anglian waterways also only of very short duration?
2. Is overstaying ever possible? If the mooring is quiet, is there any harm in overstaying a little (say there is space for another boat and I move on immediately if someone fills it).
3. Regarding wild moorings, would I be creating a nuisance of myself if I spent a week in a spot? (Obviously with utmost respect to the surroundings).
4. I think I understand the license situation but I could use a double check of my workings!
   • I currently have a CART license for my 65' boat that will expire end of November.
   • I would buy a new 12 month CaRT license in Dec 2021 (1116.14).
   • Then upgrade to a Gold license a month later refunding 11 months. Effectively this is a pro-rated cost of 1116.14/12 = 91.01 for Dec 2021.
   • Then it's a 1425.60 Gold license plus 100 for the pass - total £1616.61 for Nov 2021 to Dec 2022.
   • But I'd only be able to access the MLN from April 2022 so I'd want to time it right to get the best value for money!
5. I'm pretty concerned about the weather and strong stream conditions, particularly if there are so few moorings. I'd be new to rivers and drains, is my concern warranted if I would be in the area from April-August or so?

I get a lot of grump about wanting to move slowly so I understand if this is not a welcome question, but I really try to avoid getting in anyone's way, For example I never sit long on popular moorings even if I'm technically allowed to (I prefer more remote places anyway).

 

Thanks again!

Edited April 17, 2021 by jetzi

[GUMPY]

1: all free moorings on the Anglian system are maximum of 48hrs 

 

2: Any overstaying is selfish and very much frowned upon

 

3: Yes you would be being selfish and remember someone owns the land you are moored against would you be happy if someone rocked up and moored against land you owned?

 

About the only places you may be able to stop for more than 48hrs are those where you have to pay the landowner to moor and that will be at the landowners discretion.

 

Dont ruin it for others by being selfish.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Loddon

[john6767]

When you switch to a Gold licence you do indeed get a pro-rata refund of you existing CRT licence, so it does not matter when you do the change, it does not have to get a the start of the year, you will pay the same whenever you do it as the Gold licence will always start at the beginning of the year.  From my experience last year I would not switch it until you are about to go on the Anglian waterways in case plans change, as I was stupid and did not factor in a global pandemic!

[jetzi]

53 minutes ago, Loddon said:

1: all moorings on the Anglian system are maximum of 48hrs 

 

2: Any overstaying is selfish and very much frowned upon

 

3: Yes you would be being selfish and remember someone owns the land you are moored against would you be happy if someone rocked up and moored against land you owned?

 

About the only places you may be able to stop for more than 48hrs are those where you have to pay the landowner to moor and that will be at the landowners discretion.

 

Dont ruin it for others by being selfish.

 

1. 48 hour moorings everywhere makes these waterways next to impossible to visit unless you are boating full time. That's a pity.

 

2. As I said I am careful to not be in anyone's way, I don't believe in following rules for the sake of them but I do believe in being considerate. I'd never overstay anywhere if I was potentially using a mooring someone else needed. But I respect your perspective and I wouldn't be selfish on this or any other network. 

 

3. As discussed throughout this thread wild mooring is considered OK in places, it sounds like a "48 hour rule" applies to wild moorings as well? I'd like to think if I owned grazing land next to a waterway that had boaters moor on it sometimes I wouldn't have a problem with that. If it was my garden maybe it would be a different story!

4. Paying the landowner to moor would be an option, but how would I go about finding such places and such landowners?

 

Overstaying in poor weather conditions and strong streams I presume is acceptable?

 

As a rough estimate, if I was to go from 48hr mooring to 48hr mooring every other day, how much time do you think it would take to cover the whole of the Anglian network? A month (~15 moorings)? Three months (~45 moorings)?

Last question, what's the rough distance between moorings - a 2hour cruise each or so? - and how likely are they to be occupied when you arrive?

 

Thanks!

[GUMPY]

33 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Last question, what's the rough distance between moorings - a 2hour cruise each or so? - and how likely are they to be occupied when you arrive?

 

Facilities and moorings on the rivers both are interactive maps

 

https://nenevalley.net/on-the-river/boating/guide/

 

https://goba.org.uk/map/

 

I am sure you can work it out from the maps above

[starman]

42 minutes ago, jetzi said:

 

1. 48 hour moorings everywhere makes these waterways next to impossible to visit unless you are boating full time. That's a pity.

 

2. As I said I am careful to not be in anyone's way, I don't believe in following rules for the sake of them but I do believe in being considerate. I'd never overstay anywhere if I was potentially using a mooring someone else needed. But I respect your perspective and I wouldn't be selfish on this or any other network. 

 

3. As discussed throughout this thread wild mooring is considered OK in places, it sounds like a "48 hour rule" applies to wild moorings as well? I'd like to think if I owned grazing land next to a waterway that had boaters moor on it sometimes I wouldn't have a problem with that. If it was my garden maybe it would be a different story!

4. Paying the landowner to moor would be an option, but how would I go about finding such places and such landowners?

 

Overstaying in poor weather conditions and strong streams I presume is acceptable?

 

As a rough estimate, if I was to go from 48hr mooring to 48hr mooring every other day, how much time do you think it would take to cover the whole of the Anglian network? A month (~15 moorings)? Three months (~45 moorings)?

Last question, what's the rough distance between moorings - a 2hour cruise each or so? - and how likely are they to be occupied when you arrive?

 

Thanks!

I think you have to remember that, unlike the canals, there are large stretches where it’s simply not possible to moor - the Nene was seriously lacking until FOTRN negotiated new spots. The Middle Level is very short on spots. And there are lots of local weekend boaters. 
If you want to find longer places to stop join an AWCC boat club who often  have arrangements with each other and may help - but again, don’t expect to hang out endlessly.  
You also queried flooding etc - the Nene floods very easily and is often shut for many weeks in winter. The Ouse likewise floods but not quite so badly. 
Boating on the Anglian rivers is certainly different. 
 

[jetzi]

14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Facilities and moorings on the rivers both are interactive maps

 

https://nenevalley.net/on-the-river/boating/guide/

 

https://goba.org.uk/map/

 

I am sure you can work it out from the maps above

Thanks! Very helpful. I count about 100 moorings between those two maps, and using the measuring tool it seems they are about a mile and a half apart on average, which makes it seem feasible again. Is it considered acceptable to hop the shortest distance (consecutive moorings)?
 

What about wild moorings? Are you against them entirely @Loddon?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, jetzi said:

2. As I said I am careful to not be in anyone's way, I don't believe in following rules for the sake of them but I do believe in being considerate. I'd never overstay anywhere if I was potentially using a mooring someone else needed. But I respect your perspective and I wouldn't be selfish on this or any other network. 

 How would you know. If I come to  a mooring and its full I just carry on, I don't stop and say how long have you been here, when are you going. You wouldn't know I wanted to moor there.
Last question, what's the rough distance between moorings - a 2hour cruise each or so? - and how likely are they to be occupied when you arrive?

At weekends they could be busy as a lot of cruiser clubs go out at weekends 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just to add that the Anglian Pass runs from 1 April to 31 March. But you would be unable to get down the Nene before Easter anyway, Jan-March is normally stoppage season! 

 

For obvious reasons it's impossible to give general advice about wild moorings. There are certainly several places that have put up no mooring signs because of overstaying / rubbish / disturbance etc, but in practice don't mind someone staying overnight as long as they leave no mess.  But you won't find that information on any signs or official publications.    

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, jetzi said:

What about wild moorings? Are you against them entirely @Loddon?

Not against them at all I use some on the Nene on a regular basis, however you have to know where it is acceptable and where it isn't.

 

[jetzi]

40 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How would you know. If I come to  a mooring and its full I just carry on, I don't stop and say how long have you been here, when are you going. You wouldn't know I wanted to moor there.

What I said was "say there is space for another boat and I move on immediately if someone fills it". Obviously overstaying is selfish if you're filling the last spot. But if things are quiet, say it's a Wednesday in the off season, and there is space for 4 boats of which you are the only one, say you're in little used drain and not one other boat has passed in the last 2 days, say the weather is a bit miserable. Moving on just because it has been 48 hours isn't really following the spirit of the rule, is it?

 

I have no idea what it's like on these waterways, my impression is that much of it is quite remote and perhaps underused. That's why I'm asking. If the 48 hour rule is there because there are hundreds of boats competing for dozens of moorings then obviously I am not advocating hogging the most accessible mooring on the network.

 

I'm trying to gauge whether the only way to visit this area is to be boating full time (4+ hours cruising every other day come wind, rain or high water) or if I'm going to be able to hold down my (remote) job while I do it, and still have time to actually explore the countryside off-boat.

 

48 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

it's impossible to give general advice about wild moorings.

 

44 minutes ago, Loddon said:

you have to know where it is acceptable and where it isn't.

 

I guess all one can do is moor up where it seems like you won't cause a problem and be ready to move if anyone asks, like your guide says.

[republicscented]

The red bit is where the links are on the bottom of the page. Im colour blind too so they may not be red .Youre right though having read it properly-it is annual. The chart on the EA site under heading 2.1 does show the ML and EA day rates which are the same  like fishing hand caster. Certainly not the easiest to make sense of and can see what Doratheexplorer means now!

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by republicscented

[Rivelin]

On 17/04/2021 at 22:09, jetzi said:

 

I have no idea what it's like on these waterways, my impression is that much of it is quite remote and perhaps underused. That's why I'm asking. If the 48 hour rule is there because there are hundreds of boats competing for dozens of moorings then obviously I am not advocating hogging the most accessible mooring on the network.

 

 

Yes it is quite remote - the Middle Level and Great Ouse network have many miles of straight wateways with high flood banks so the surrounding countryside isn't visible. There is a good chance you will not find a mooring space in some areas - not that you will be competing with hundreds of boats, but the moorings are usually quite short.

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 17/04/2021 at 20:46, Loddon said:

Facilities and moorings on the rivers both are interactive maps

 

https://nenevalley.net/on-the-river/boating/guide/

 

https://goba.org.uk/map/

 

I am sure you can work it out from the maps above

Thanks for those links, I had not come across the first one, I have added both to the GOBA guide.

[GUMPY]

Having just done a back search I have again found the EA downloadable maps page ?

https://www.visitanglianwaterways.org/maps

 

These IMO are possibly the best maps of Anglian waterways. I am not sure when they were last updated but my A1 size versions are great, makes me feel like I am using charts again ?

[Scholar Gypsy]

3 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Having just done a back search I have again found the EA downloadable maps page ?

https://www.visitanglianwaterways.org/maps

 

These IMO are possibly the best maps of Anglian waterways. I am not sure when they were last updated but my A1 size versions are great, makes me feel like I am using charts again ?

Thank you, I do have these somewhere on board. I have added a link.   

I also like the PLA's recreational  tideway charts, although my confidence is slightly dented by the warning in the red box just north of Southend  ...   What else are they for ??

https://boatingonthethames.co.uk/recreational-users-guide-boating-on-the-thames/

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I also like the PLA's recreational  tideway charts, although my confidence is slightly dented by the warning in the red box just north of Southend  ...   What else are they for ??

 

 

You will find that most (all ?) non offcial producers of tidal information will have the same disclaimer on the data.

 

Unfortunateley we are in an age of 'legal responsibility for information given' and without the actual conditions on the day (pressure and wind) the tidal forecasts could be hours, and many 'feet' out, and nasty things can happen.

 

Here is another one on a coastal fishing web site  (I appreciate it is not related to boating)

 

The times reflected in the tidal table for Southend-on-Sea are predictions valid as references for sports fishing in areas near the coast of Southend-on-Sea. THEY ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR NAVIGATION.

Remember that to practice any activity at sea like diving, windsurfing and fishing from a boat or underwater fishing should always be consulted with the official tide tables of the port of Southend-on-Sea

 

 

Use of Information

The data shown on tides4fishing is only valid for information purposes; you use it under your own responsibility. It is not checked by any official organism, and so IS NOT VALID FOR NAVIGATION. The tides4fishing team are not responsible for any damages caused by the interpretation and use of the information included on this website.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Scholar Gypsy]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You will find that most (all ?) non offcial producers of tidal information will have the same disclaimer on the data.

 

Unfortunateley we are in an age of 'legal responsibility for information given' and without the actual conditions on the day (pressure and wind) the tidal forecasts could be hours, and many 'feet' out, and nasty things can happen.

 

Here is another one on a coastal fishing web site  (I appreciate it is not related to boating)

 

The times reflected in the tidal table for Southend-on-Sea are predictions valid as references for sports fishing in areas near the coast of Southend-on-Sea. THEY ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR NAVIGATION.

Remember that to practice any activity at sea like diving, windsurfing and fishing from a boat or underwater fishing should always be consulted with the official tide tables of the port of Southend-on-Sea

 

 

Use of Information

The data shown on tides4fishing is only valid for information purposes; you use it under your own responsibility. It is not checked by any official organism, and so IS NOT VALID FOR NAVIGATION. The tides4fishing team are not responsible for any damages caused by the interpretation and use of the information included on this website.

Yes, I thought it would be something like that.  I certainly wouldn't use that particular chart for working out a bearing from A to B, or working out if the channel was deep enough for a large container ship.... It's a bit odd as the PLA are I think the official hydrographer for the Thames estuary.  Re tide tables, I suspect the difference between prediction and reality on any given day is more than the difference between different predictions?

[Midnight]

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party and it all seems a bit confusing. My good lady retired 3 weeks ago so we are off on our first 6 month cruise. After considering the covid situation we decided the Fens & Great Ouse are preferable to London. We have a Gold License so am I correct in thinking we don't need any other license?