New Solid state batteries on the horizon.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, alistair1537 said:

I am not selling my boat. I spent around 3k on my LiFePO4 system - batteries 24V 100A/h - 4 x 275W solar panels - 50A Solar charge controller - 100A BMS - 25A Battery Charger - 1600W generator and 3000W Inverter. I charge my batteries between 1 and 2 hours per day in winter - and never in Summer - I am not hooked to any shore power. Let me know your costs for your system and we'll compare charging times etc.

I have lived aboard full time for nearly 32 years and havnt spent 3k on batteries and associated stuff yet in that entire time. Lithium quite simply isnt going to cut it cost wise. My travelpower does all hard work when off grid and my inverter combi does my all mains boat from 4 cheapo batteries the rest of the time. How many years full time living aboard and costs do you bring to the question? Pleeeese dont tell me you have a composting toilet?

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

In the last 30 odd years we have had 18 boats and the last one we've had since 2015,

I don't even get the chance to replace a set of FLA's

 

110Ah FLA @ £60 each.

Weve lived aboard 8 boats in that time and no way would I throw good money away on a set of battereis that do little better than what I use normaly. My flas were ninety quid each last time and are 4 years old in june, its a no brainer in not having lithium.

[alistair1537]

I gather all the power systems you've had on the boats in 32 years came free? Nice!

 

And no composting toilet - shame, it must be hard, dreaming up little digs all the time...

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, alistair1537 said:

I gather all the power systems you've had on the boats in 32 years came free? Nice!

 

And no composting toilet - shame, it must be hard, dreaming up little digs all the time...

The systems were fitted when I either bought or built the boats. So no further costs needed. the composting bog wasnt a dig, if you have one it tells me a lot 

Are you a vegan also?

Just because some technology is newer and " Up to date " doesnt mean its better for boating as boating is a completely different thing to anything else. Enjoy your lithiums at vast expense and being tied to a particular boat if you need to look at the economics.

Just one last thing, boats are like cars. A MX5 is a great car for a youngster aged 19 but its useless when that youngster is aged 29 and married with 3 kids. I have lived on coastal wooden boats, steel narrowboats of differing lengths and one steel widebeam all at different times in different places and thats one consideration that I  make regards cost of changing anything major. Nothing in life beats experience which is why I ask my 100 year old mum about stuff pre second world war as I know she has way more idea than I will ever have. To be fair the beauty of forums like this is the wealth of experience regards boats and I learn something most weeks, one thing I have learnt is that for me lithiums would never ever be worthwhile, for others they may be after some years.

[alistair1537]

I have not ever lived on a boat until this year. So you have years of experience with L.A. Good for you. You also have zero experience with LiFePO4. I have loads of experience with L.A. batteries as relates to cars and also with deep cycle batteries in Camper vans. I have at least one year of LiFePO4 experience under the belt so far...In all honesty, I would not change back...I have plenty of other barges around me with L.A. I hear daily of their woes... I approach everything I do with care and consideration. I am fitting out this widebeam as my retirement plan. I had to make a decision as to what power supply and battery systems I could employ to make my retirement more comfortable. It is simply a no-brainer to use modern technology. I don't care to charge a battery for 5 hours a day to get it to 90% and then another 4 hours to float it to 100% and then only get to use 50% of the capacity...The basic cost of a L.A. system still requires Solar panels, charge controller, inverter, battery charger and so on. 

[alistair1537]

the composting bog wasnt a dig, if you have one it tells me a lot 

Are you a vegan also?

 

That you ask the questions also tells me a lot...

[peterboat]

23 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

I have not ever lived on a boat until this year. So you have years of experience with L.A. Good for you. You also have zero experience with LiFePO4. I have loads of experience with L.A. batteries as relates to cars and also with deep cycle batteries in Camper vans. I have at least one year of LiFePO4 experience under the belt so far...In all honesty, I would not change back...I have plenty of other barges around me with L.A. I hear daily of their woes... I approach everything I do with care and consideration. I am fitting out this widebeam as my retirement plan. I had to make a decision as to what power supply and battery systems I could employ to make my retirement more comfortable. It is simply a no-brainer to use modern technology. I don't care to charge a battery for 5 hours a day to get it to 90% and then another 4 hours to float it to 100% and then only get to use 50% of the capacity...The basic cost of a L.A. system still requires Solar panels, charge controller, inverter, battery charger and so on. 

Same here I am a long time user of LifePo4s both for leisure and drive, for me and plenty of others they are the best thing since sliced bread (same as a composting loo) Tim is a dinosaur same as plenty of others but if you are tied to a landline does it matter? Eventually all boats will be electric so LifePo4s will be the norm and dinosaurs will be extinct! Sorry Tim mate 

[alistair1537]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Same here I am a long time user of LifePo4s both for leisure and drive, for me and plenty of others they are the best thing since sliced bread (same as a composting loo) Tim is a dinosaur same as plenty of others but if you are tied to a landline does it matter? Eventually all boats will be electric so LifePo4s will be the norm and dinosaurs will be extinct! Sorry Tim mate 

Eight hours or so of shore line charging isn't free either. I am totally off grid - My engine alternator only charges the start battery as well - I don't charge from alternator to the LiFePO4, only solar and generator. The added benefit of LiFePO4 is that if I only get to 50% charge via solar today - I can use it back down to 10% without any risk of damage to the batteries - L.A. don't like that. To treat L.A. properly, you need to charge them fully...

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

Eight hours or so of shore line charging isn't free either. I am totally off grid - My engine alternator only charges the start battery as well - I don't charge from alternator to the LiFePO4, only solar and generator. The added benefit of LiFePO4 is that if I only get to 50% charge via solar today - I can use it back down to 10% without any risk of damage to the batteries - L.A. don't like that. To treat L.A. properly, you need to charge them fully...

I have 4.6 kw of solar and a built in 6kw genny  no engine just an electric motor so hence the LifePo4s only way to make it work 

[mrsmelly]

19 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

Eight hours or so of shore line charging isn't free either. I am totally off grid - My engine alternator only charges the start battery as well - I don't charge from alternator to the LiFePO4, only solar and generator. The added benefit of LiFePO4 is that if I only get to 50% charge via solar today - I can use it back down to 10% without any risk of damage to the batteries - L.A. don't like that. To treat L.A. properly, you need to charge them fully...

Mains hook up costs diddly squatt. I am hooked up at present 24/7 wih mains everythjng and worst case scenariois is a 2 quid a day bill, last months bill was 42 quis so much less for everything. In my lifestyle \i would never even come close to breaking even on lithiums, thjs is why 99 percent of us still havnt got them.

[alistair1537]

10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have 4.6 kw of solar and a built in 6kw genny  no engine just an electric motor so hence the LifePo4s only way to make it work 

How many hours cruising do you get per charge? As I ask this, I'm sure you've posted the answer somewhere before?

[mrsmelly]

30 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Same here I am a long time user of LifePo4s both for leisure and drive, for me and plenty of others they are the best thing since sliced bread (same as a composting loo) Tim is a dinosaur same as plenty of others but if you are tied to a landline does it matter? Eventually all boats will be electric so LifePo4s will be the norm and dinosaurs will be extinct! Sorry Tim mate 

Dont mention your " Whispergen " old bean 

[alistair1537]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Mains hook up costs diddly squatt. I am hooked up at present 24/7 wih mains everythjng and worst case scenariois is a 2 quid a day bill, last months bill was 42 quis so much less for everything. In my lifestyle \i would never even come close to breaking even on lithiums, thjs is why 99 percent of us still havnt got them.

I find it amusing that people are so cavalier when it comes to mains consumption - hooked to shore power; yet insist on running Multi-fuel stoves...lol. You'll be defending the niceties of the smokey fire and extolling the wonders of cheap power from your shoreline...I don't know how you do it. You do have a smokey fire lit?

Edited February 20, 2021 by alistair1537
Double word

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, alistair1537 said:

I find it amusing that people are so cavalier when it comes to mains consumption - hooked to shore power; yet insist on running Multi-fuel stoves...lol. You'll be defending the niceties of the smokey fire and extolling the wonders of cheap power from your shoreline...I don't know how you do it. You do have a smokey fire fire lit?

We will continue the discussion when you have some lifes experience until then I will understand that you are yet another newby who thinks he has all the answers when in fact you have zero.

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

Eight hours or so of shore line charging isn't free either. I am totally off grid

 

Don't you cruise ?

[alistair1537]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

We will continue the discussion when you have some lifes experience until then I will understand that you are yet another newby who thinks he has all the answers when in fact you have zero.

Okey dokey...I guess thinking too hard is tiring for you...In the good old days you didn't have to learn anything new...

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont mention your " Whispergen " old bean 

Its gone Tim removed and put in the bathtub I have put in a 6 kw genny that runs on biodiesel so its cleaner, the biodiesel is made from waste vegetable oils, still coupled into the heating system though so lots of lace and heat, trouble is hardly need it 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Don't you cruise ?

To be fair I think he is fitting out so in a few years time may have some answers. Meantime he is another that doesnt want to listen to free experience.

[peterboat]

10 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

How many hours cruising do you get per charge? As I ask this, I'm sure you've posted the answer somewhere before?

It will do 10 hours with no sun if its sunny the solar keeps up with the motor 

[alistair1537]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Don't you cruise ?

I haven't started my cruising phase yet - I only got the boat in 2020 and lock-down and the build and, and...also, I am a bit worried about reports that LiFePO4 don't get along with Alternators? Or is it the other way round? In any case, very few alternators are built with LiFePO4 in mind.

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, alistair1537 said:

I haven't started my cruising phase yet - I only got the boat in 2020 and lock-down and the build and, and...also, I am a bit worried about reports that LiFePO4 don't get along with Alternators? Or is it the other way round? In any case, very few alternators are built with LiFePO4 in mind.

Peter boat and Doctor Bob and one or two others can give you the bumff re best method to charge the batteries.

[alistair1537]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

To be fair I think he is fitting out so in a few years time may have some answers. Meantime he is another that doesnt want to listen to free experience.

Ah, come on, mate. The only free thing you've got is 30 years of L.A. power...

[mrsmelly]

Just now, alistair1537 said:

Ah, come on, mate. The only free thing you've got is 30 years of L.A. power...

And stoves and the complete life style. There are reasons honestly why most boats even today being built have FLA batteries, diesel propulsion and soild fuel stoves etc etc, Look at the boats for sale of even recent boats and check out he specs and ask yourself why?

[alistair1537]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

And stoves and the complete life style. There are reasons honestly why most boats even today being built have FLA batteries, diesel propulsion and soild fuel stoves etc etc, Look at the boats for sale of even recent boats and check out he specs and ask yourself why?

They're selling them to old gits? 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, alistair1537 said:

They're selling them to old gits? 

Lol. Probably .

[dmr]

My Trojans are pretty much finished, only done 5-1/2 years of cycling everyday on an off grid liveaboard,  that's just 2000 cycles at various DoD's ?.

I'm an electrical/electronic engineer by training and like technology, and have seriously looked at Lithium, but on balance I think I'll get some more Trojans. Maybe next time it will be lithium...if I last that long.

 

...............Dave