New boat dimensions wide-beam

[Maffi]

No, Going to Calais is doable but you need the right day. It takes a lot of planning and you need  pilot.

 

[Fraclowe]

2 minutes ago, Maffi said:

No, Going to Calais is doable but you need the right day. It takes a lot of planning and you need  pilot.

 

nice to know its possible tho , thank u 

[Maffi]

1 hour ago, Fraclowe said:

I want to enjoy my retirement, I neither have the skill or patience to do it myself 

Just so you know my boat was 1i months in the building and that was 4 months over promised date

[Fraclowe]

1 minute ago, Maffi said:

Just so you know my boat was 1i months in the building and that was 4 months over promised date

yes, I have a while yet, I have pension pots here that have to be worked out sooooo....

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

I am looking to buy a hull and have it fitted out ,

If you buy the shell and commission someone else to fit it out you may become the 'boatbuilder' and liable for RCD compliance. Why not buy a boat already fitted out? New fully fitted boats are available from some boatbuilders, and you won't have to wait for it to be fitted out. Or save a significant sum and buy second hand and live with it for a year or two. That way you will have a much better idea of what works for you than if you try and specify it all in advance of ever having lived aboard.

[Fraclowe]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

If you buy the shell and commission someone else to fit it out you may become the 'boatbuilder' and liable for RCD compliance. Why not buy a boat already fitted out? New fully fitted boats are available from some boatbuilders, and you won't have to wait for it to be fitted out. Or save a significant sum and buy second hand and live with it for a year or two. That way you will have a much better idea of what works for you than if you try and specify it all in advance of ever having lived aboard.

ok, food for thought ... thx 

[LadyG]

There are several good build blogs on YouTube. 

Foxes Afloat had a boat via Bickerstaffe. I believe they are getting another one, presumably with new ideas. 

Colin Jacques did nearly all the internals himself, he had a workshop, and made a good job of it, All the right tools, but there is still a lot of joinery. 

I must admit I would like a bespoke boat made with real narrow boat building skills, it's a specialist job, and presumably spectacularly expensive, the compromise is to go to someone like Aintree boats and get a 'production boat' 

I would always have a Hull grit blasted and epoxied from new, has to pay off in about five years. 

Depends on your 'style', but a really good paint job can set off your boat beautifully, but I would worry about scratches etc if cruising extensively. Still very tempting. 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by LadyG

[Bod]

Take a look at this map.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190922190727/http://jim-shead.com/waterways/mwp.php?wpage=Inland-Waterways-of-England.htm

It gives a simple guide to wide and narrow canals.

 

Bod.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

If you do decide to go to Calais with your wide beam boat, take a thousand others with you please on a one way cruise.

[PaulD]

Most canal bridges are semi circular so air draft will be less for a wide boat than a narrow boat.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by PaulD
Text repeated

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, PaulD said:

Most canal bridges are semi circular so air draft will be less for a wide boat than a narrow boat.

 

 

 

 

[Bee]

Many of the issues raised here can be avoided by buying a used boat. With patience and research some very good, hardly used boats can be found - and you will save yourself a heap of money. A nearly suitable boat and a partial refit could be a way forward and it will give you a boat much quicker than starting from scratch and if and when you sell it on then you will have avoided some depreciation. As far as the other side of the channel is concerned there is much to be recommended, this is a subject in itself and the Dutch Barge Association site is the one to use. Brexit has done its miserable best to throw up difficulties but again, research and information is the way forward.  Our boat is 11` 4" wide, it didn't take us long to travel all the Southern routes available to us after which it was just the same stuff.  I don't know much about the Northern waterways but mooring and licences on the Thames for instance were shockingly expensive 10 years ago. Our present mooring is in Belgium and is 1/3 of the UK price. Good luck and hopefully the covid monster will release its grip so travelling is possible again.

[blackrose]

10 hours ago, Fraclowe said:

how do you mean, sail round into the north sea ?

 

 

No, definitely not advisable. Getting across the channel on a good day with lots of planning might be do-able (but risky), but a much longer journey on the North Sea on a RCD Cat D boat is not. For both journeys it's recommended to put your boat on the back of a truck.

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If you do decide to go to Calais with your wide beam boat, take a thousand others with you please on a one way cruise.

 

And likewise if you decide to go abroad please take your narrowboat and a thousand others with you please on a one way cruise. 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, blackrose said:

No, definitely not advisable. Getting across the channel on a good day with lots of planning might be do-able (but risky), but a much longer journey on the North Sea on a RCD Cat D boat is not. For both journeys it's recommended to put your boat on the back of a truck.

 

 

I would doubt that the insurers would cover a Cat D boat for a sea crossing. I believe that you have to have agreed with the insurers before you can cross even the Wash, and, even then there may be requirements to carry a pilot.

 

In 2017 the RCD categories have been amended from :

 

• Category A: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 metres and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels are largely self-sufficient.
• Category B: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 4 metres may be experienced.
• Category C: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 2 metres may be experienced.
• Category D: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals where conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3 metres may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5 metres maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

 

To (now) simply refer to wave height - no mention of 'coastal' or 'inland'.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

No, definitely not advisable. Getting across the channel on a good day with lots of planning might be do-able (but risky), but a much longer journey on the North Sea on a RCD Cat D boat is not. For both journeys it's recommended to put your boat on the back of a truck.

 

And likewise if you decide to go abroad please take your narrowboat and a thousand others with you please on a one way cruise. 

 

I have been back to the original post and all the OP says is "wide beam" so it is possible he is thinking about something other than a Cat. D wide beam "narrowboat" as they seem to be called.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have been back to the original post and all the OP says is "wide beam" so it is possible he is thinking about something other than a Cat. D wide beam "narrowboat" as they seem to be called.

 

 

That is a good point, if the OP isn;t aware of the differences then this from 'British Marine'  may help.

 

The difference bewtween 'Dutch Barge Style' and 'Dutch barges'

 

'Dutch Barge Style' Narrowboats / 'Wide Beam' Narrowboats

Wide beam narrowboats / dutch style narrowboats are a good entry point to barge cruising as they are cheaper than Dutch barges. These boats borrow their design from narrowboats and their flat-bottomed, shallow draft, with keel-cooled engines makes them suitable for sustaining the 4 knots max speed of the UK canals (they are not suitable for sea journeys). Lengths normally vary between 40-60 feet long and they are often built to Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) category D requirements.

 

Dutch Barges

At the other end of the market, dutch barges are designed more for European river cruising with frequent sea journeys, etc. These barges have a more powerful engine and angled side for improved handling through the water, have a deeper draft and more weight. Lengths vary between  50-75 feet. Most new built Replica Dutch barges are built to RCD Cat 'C' which is deemed suitable for wind speeds up to force 6 and significant wave height to 2m. There are a few barges that have been designed and built to Cat 'B' requirements.

The accommodation inside of a wide beam river barge and Dutch barge can be virtually identical, although a Dutch barge will normally have a covered wheelhouse, which can offer comfortable, all weather seating for 4 or more people, whereas wide beams normally have an open stern with tiller steering, the same as narrowboats. There will normally be slightly more usable internal space on a Dutch Barge design than on a wide beam.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

There are several good build blogs on YouTube. 

Foxes Afloat had a boat via Bickerstaffe. I believe they are getting another one, presumably with new ideas. 

 

 

That didn't last long then and I don't think they were ne to boating.

[Trevor Lyons]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

By 2025 ALL boats built must be capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion (so if you fit a diesel engine now, it must be designed to be able to be removed and alternative power used).

 

Does this mean all boats built after 2025, or all boats ever built? Surely not the latter?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, Trevor Lyons said:

 

Does this mean all boats built after 2025, ? or all boats ever built? ? Surely not the latter?

All boats built ever after 2050. See @Alan de Enfield's post earlier.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Trevor Lyons said:

 

Does this mean all boats built after 2025, or all boats ever built? Surely not the latter?

 

The Maritime 2050 Plan is that :

 

 

NO BOATS will be allowed on UK waters (inland & coastal) after 2050 unless they have a Zero emission propulsion system.

 

ALL NEW BUILD boats built after 2025 must be capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion/

 

ALL NEW BUILD boats built after 2035 MUST be zero emission propulsion.

 

 

[Fraclowe]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

No, definitely not advisable. Getting across the channel on a good day with lots of planning might be do-able (but risky), but a much longer journey on the North Sea on a RCD Cat D boat is not. For both journeys it's recommended to put your boat on the back of a truck.

 

And likewise if you decide to go abroad please take your narrowboat and a thousand others with you please on a one way cruise. 

yes, going round the bumpy bit at Norfolk sounded a bit scary to me too, the Channel bit would be hair raising enough, the thought of wintering in the south of France does have a certain appeal to it tho , I will have to ask my Twucker friend the complexities of this, he does a lot of Continental crossing/driving , thx for the feedback

[Fraclowe]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

There are several good build blogs on YouTube. 

Foxes Afloat had a boat via Bickerstaffe. I believe they are getting another one, presumably with new ideas. 

Colin Jacques did nearly all the internals himself, he had a workshop, and made a good job of it, All the right tools, but there is still a lot of joinery. 

I must admit I would like a bespoke boat made with real narrow boat building skills, it's a specialist job, and presumably spectacularly expensive, the compromise is to go to someone like Aintree boats and get a 'production boat' 

I would always have a Hull grit blasted and epoxied from new, has to pay off in about five years. 

Depends on your 'style', but a really good paint job can set off your boat beautifully, but I would worry about scratches etc if cruising extensively. Still very tempting. 

 

ok, I will start looking at those , I have found one that Collingwood have done altho I believe it was for one of the owners , its a bit fancy but the basic idea's on it are close to what I want, its not part of their std range but if they have done it B4 they could do it again , thanks again 

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/collingwood-galactica-for-sale/642792

Edited February 18, 2021 by Fraclowe

[Fraclowe]

4 hours ago, Bee said:

Many of the issues raised here can be avoided by buying a used boat. With patience and research some very good, hardly used boats can be found - and you will save yourself a heap of money. A nearly suitable boat and a partial refit could be a way forward and it will give you a boat much quicker than starting from scratch and if and when you sell it on then you will have avoided some depreciation. As far as the other side of the channel is concerned there is much to be recommended, this is a subject in itself and the Dutch Barge Association site is the one to use. Brexit has done its miserable best to throw up difficulties but again, research and information is the way forward.  Our boat is 11` 4" wide, it didn't take us long to travel all the Southern routes available to us after which it was just the same stuff.  I don't know much about the Northern waterways but mooring and licences on the Thames for instance were shockingly expensive 10 years ago. Our present mooring is in Belgium and is 1/3 of the UK price. Good luck and hopefully the covid monster will release its grip so travelling is possible again.

OK thanks Bee, its all food for thought, do I detect a little Aussie accent there ?,  how would the Barges be on the Norther England bit, wouldn't I have to worry about draft as well ? , I am trying to get as much info together as I can so when I can come and do my initial Rekkie back in Blighty I know what to look for , thx for the info 

[Fraclowe]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is a good point, if the OP isn;t aware of the differences then this from 'British Marine'  may help.

 

The difference bewtween 'Dutch Barge Style' and 'Dutch barges'

 

'Dutch Barge Style' Narrowboats / 'Wide Beam' Narrowboats

Wide beam narrowboats / dutch style narrowboats are a good entry point to barge cruising as they are cheaper than Dutch barges. These boats borrow their design from narrowboats and their flat-bottomed, shallow draft, with keel-cooled engines makes them suitable for sustaining the 4 knots max speed of the UK canals (they are not suitable for sea journeys). Lengths normally vary between 40-60 feet long and they are often built to Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) category D requirements.

 

Dutch Barges

At the other end of the market, dutch barges are designed more for European river cruising with frequent sea journeys, etc. These barges have a more powerful engine and angled side for improved handling through the water, have a deeper draft and more weight. Lengths vary between  50-75 feet. Most new built Replica Dutch barges are built to RCD Cat 'C' which is deemed suitable for wind speeds up to force 6 and significant wave height to 2m. There are a few barges that have been designed and built to Cat 'B' requirements.

The accommodation inside of a wide beam river barge and Dutch barge can be virtually identical, although a Dutch barge will normally have a covered wheelhouse, which can offer comfortable, all weather seating for 4 or more people, whereas wide beams normally have an open stern with tiller steering, the same as narrowboats. There will normally be slightly more usable internal space on a Dutch Barge design than on a wide beam.

Hi, yes so a dutch barge is appealing but wont I run into height issues with a fixed wheelhouse, I know they can have ones that you can lower but that sounds a pain in the posterior every time I hit a low bridge in England , I really like the Collingwood ( see link ) I believe it was bespoke but if they have done it once, again I need to check the heights for bridges and the " air draft " , which I presume is a combination of width , height and curviness 

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/collingwood-galactica-for-sale/642792

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Fraclowe said:

how would the Barges be on the Norther England bit, wouldn't I have to worry about draft as well ?

 

 

No no worries - the Draft on my boat is 4'6 to 5'.

The Northern commercial canals and rivers are (normally**) dredged to at least 6'.

 

**The dreging on (for example) the Trent is specified as being 'the main navigable channel dredged to 6') but there have been occasions where I have 'hit the bottom' so the intentions are not always actually achieved.

The Aire & Calder canal (for example) is 7'6"

The Stainforth & Keadby canal (for example) is 7' 3"