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Thames red board - mid March


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14 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

 

We've been on the Thames since I launched the boat in 2000. Because it's our nearest waterway I built her with a larger engine (50 HP - having struggled upstream from Limehouse in a hire boat in normal coditions some years earlier).

 

  • Red Boards are only displayed when the waterflow reaches a certain rate and the weirs have all (or nearly all their sluices open). In most cases this is also dependent on how much water the next lock downstream can handle as well.
  • How long the River remains on 'Reds' is determined - not unreasonably - by how much water is captured by the Thames basin (if that's the right term) and how much waster is in the smaller streams emptying into the River.
  • I got a message from my marina last week which said (amongst other things) "The water is running at about 7 knots and we have 250 tons of water passing us per second, or 21,600,000 tons of water per day passing by". That's a helluva lot of water against which to push and I suggest almost impossible in a normally powered leisure narrowboat.
  • In Red conditions in the late spring / summer, it typically takes a week to ten days for the flow to return to normal. In the 'off season' - November to early April and with the catchment area saturated  / super saturated, it can take two weeks for the Reds to lower to Yellow Increasing boards (still high flows)  and a further two weeks for yellows to revert to normal.
  • It would be foolhardy - mebe negligent - to proceed in a normally powered canal boat - let alone one with a suspect engine....
  • I got caught once above Days Lock some years ago and turning to pick up a field mooring was a bit scary....   

 

Either postpone the trip and delay  moving or send the boat by road seems more sensible to me...

Thank you for all of that. Really helpful and informative. 

 

I'm not going to move the boat with a suspect engine, am getting that sorted first but every else still stands for sure! 

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1 hour ago, Jentreefication said:

No guarantees of anything so working it out best I can..

 

Bung it on a truck - you can pretty much guarantee when it will leave London, and when and where it will arrive in the Bristol area. Unfortunately, bung it on a truck is also pretty much guaranteed to be the most expensive option!

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Have you considered using train as a backup option?  Much of your route is close to a reasonable service from Bristol, so if you can safely moor (allowing for possible floods) within walking distance of a station you could possibly still return to the boat each evening when working.  Even a few weeks of train tickets might be cheaper than a truck.

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Thames is not looking good for boating at the moment.

 

 

In the capital, temperatures dropped to -2C overnight on Thursday to leave the Thames frozen over in Teddington, southwest London.

Staff at Teddington lifeboat station posted a picture, saying: “Not often the Thames freezes over in Teddington. Might have to use the D class [inflatable] lifeboat as an icebreaker!”

The RNLI responded by joking that the charity might have to send one of its rescue hovercraft.

 

 

Image

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The following is obviously indicative not determinative, but will hopefully be helpful. We are based on the Wey but use the Thames a lot, and these are the dates of our first Thames trip each year along with my recollection of conditions. 

2014 - Lechlade 5-19 April. Yellows much of the way with flow around 2mph making it a bit of a slog upstream.
2015 - Windsor 30 March-2 April. Benign river, relaxed cruise. 
2016 - River Lee/Stort 24 March-4 April. The return from Teddington to Shepperton was really difficult - very strong flow.
2017 - several trips from 4 March onwards. Sunbury, Teddington and Lechlade (separate trips) all completed by 7 April in great conditions. There was still a bit of flow though - my log shows engine hours for the Lechlade trip as 38.3 upstream and 26.7 downstream.
2018 - Windsor 15-17 February and Marlow 6-12 March. Both trips on yellows and really hard work, not recommended.
2019 - Reading 11-17 April. Calm and pleasant.
2020 - Let's not go there. 

The flow at Staines (one of my benchmark stations) is currently 165 cumecs, compared to 280-300 cumecs a week ago. So it is definitely dropping off. With the amount of rain we have had this year coupled with current flow rates, if we have no more significant rain the Thames might be safe by the middle of March. The Kennet through Reading must also be watched and assessed carefully - there is a far narrower (literally) margin of error on the Kennet.  

  • Greenie 2
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1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Have you considered using train as a backup option?  Much of your route is close to a reasonable service from Bristol, so if you can safely moor (allowing for possible floods) within walking distance of a station you could possibly still return to the boat each evening when working.  Even a few weeks of train tickets might be cheaper than a truck.

Reasonable journey times for stations from London out as far as Reading going towards Bristol. About 2 hours each way from local stations, down to about an hour on direct services from Reading. Budget about £100 per day for "walk up" return fares.

Reading and as far out as Bedwyn going towards Bristol. 2 1/2 hours each way (average), travel via Reading. Budget about £100 per day for "walk up" return fares.

Bedwyn to Bradford on Avon/Trowbridge. Catch the bus to swindon for a train service? Devizes is probably the only place this works. About 45 min on the train, plus time on bus. Budget (for train fare) about £20 per day for "walk up" return fares. Bus fare n/k.

Bradford on Avon/Trowbridge going towards Bristol. About 45 min each way from Trowbridge. Budget about £15 per day for "walk up" return fares. Very limited service from Freshford and Avoncliff.

Nearly all travel by train requires a seat reservation at the moment, although this is often managed by quota control where a percentage of seats are available for customers who purchase on the day.

Avoid anything that involves Cross Country Trains for the short leg of the journey between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway; its often more expensive; and their trains have much lower capacity, leading to over crowding.

1 hour ago, Cheese said:
Edited by Eeyore
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47 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Reasonable journey times for stations from London out as far as Reading going towards Bristol. About 2 hours each way from local stations, down to about an hour on direct services from Reading. Budget about £100 per day for "walk up" return fares.

Reading and as far out as Bedwyn going towards Bristol. 2 1/2 hours each way (average), travel via Reading. Budget about £100 per day for "walk up" return fares.

Bedwyn to Bradford on Avon/Trowbridge. Catch the bus to swindon for a train service? Devizes is probably the only place this works. About 45 min on the train, plus time on bus. Budget (for train fare) about £20 per day for "walk up" return fares. Bus fare n/k.

Bradford on Avon/Trowbridge going towards Bristol. About 45 min each way from Trowbridge. Budget about £15 per day for "walk up" return fares. Very limited service from Freshford and Avoncliff.

Nearly all travel by train requires a seat reservation at the moment, although this is often managed by quota control where a percentage of seats are available for customers who purchase on the day.

Avoid anything that involves Cross Country Trains for the short leg of the journey between Bristol Temple Meads and Bristol Parkway; its often more expensive; and their trains have much lower capacity, leading to over crowding.

 

 

As compared to £800 - £1000 for the boat to be moved in one day.

  • Greenie 1
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Our share boat relocated from the K & A to Wigrams via Oxford in 2018.  One of our owners got the boat as far as Aldermaston in late March, but then the Thames was still on red boards and had to leave it there. I was on board early May and the red boards had just finished at the very end of April.  Quite a rapid passage through Reading before getting onto the Thames.

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3 hours ago, Col_T said:

 

Bung it on a truck - you can pretty much guarantee when it will leave London, and when and where it will arrive in the Bristol area. Unfortunately, bung it on a truck is also pretty much guaranteed to be the most expensive option!

 

The Op is doing everything just right, she wants to move her boat by water so is behaving like a boater rather than a non-boaty liveaboard. She is asking for help and advice, and cruising the boat to get familiar with it and assess the reported engine problem. If it all goes well then its a lovely trip up the Thames and K&A, if there are boat or high flow problems then she can do a plan B and go for road transport.

 

..............Dave

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On 13/02/2021 at 15:43, dmr said:

 

The Op is doing everything just right, she wants to move her boat by water so is behaving like a boater rather than a non-boaty liveaboard. She is asking for help and advice, and cruising the boat to get familiar with it and assess the reported engine problem. If it all goes well then its a lovely trip up the Thames and K&A, if there are boat or high flow problems then she can do a plan B and go for road transport.

 

..............Dave

 

She absolutely is, and should be commended for it!

 

We picked up our boat end of July 2015, and I was so naive I had no idea about stoppages, red boards or any of those 'niceties'. Still, we made it from Crick to Reading in 8 days, with no major disasters - though one failed mooring attempt (3 attempts in the same place before giving up and moving on) still brings huge feelings of embarrassment - we find a much better spot   a little further one, and no other boats to admire my abilities, thank heavens!

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On 13/02/2021 at 17:35, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A 'days trucking' cost for a NB

But if yours is a current quote then it should be more accurate - what did that cost ?

You also have to hire a load of strong men at each end to get the boat onto or off of the back of the truck. 

 

Or you could use a crane which might be a few hundred at each end. 

 

Last road haulage I did was Boston Lincs to Reading couple of years ago 16 tonne steel trawler total cost was around £1600. The road part was about £1000. ES Frisby haulage was the carrier. 

 

For London area it's usually P&S Marine (don't say it too quickly) at Watford for the lifting. Not sure how much their crane is. 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

You also have to hire a load of strong men at each end to get the boat onto or off of the back of the truck. 

 

Or you could use a crane which might be a few hundred at each end. 

 

Last road haulage I did was Boston Lincs to Reading couple of years ago 16 tonne steel trawler total cost was around £1600. The road part was about £1000. ES Frisby haulage was the carrier. 

 

For London area it's usually P&S Marine (don't say it too quickly) at Watford for the lifting. Not sure how much their crane is. 

 

 

 

July 2019 Price List 1:7:19 inc VAT (pandsmarine.co.uk)

Edited by Tim Lewis
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36 minutes ago, magnetman said:

You also have to hire a load of strong men at each end to get the boat onto or off of the back of the truck. 

 

Or you could use a crane which might be a few hundred at each end. 

 

Last road haulage I did was Boston Lincs to Reading couple of years ago 16 tonne steel trawler total cost was around £1600. The road part was about £1000. ES Frisby haulage was the carrier. 

 

For London area it's usually P&S Marine (don't say it too quickly) at Watford for the lifting. Not sure how much their crane is. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a 30 "ish" footer, it can be hoisted onto and off a flat-back truck with a Hiab.

P&S can even do it (picture taken at P&S)

 

I bet a lot of truckers would be happy with £1000 for a days work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P-and-S-Marine_hyab_2.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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On 13/02/2021 at 12:50, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Thames is not looking good for boating at the moment.

 

 

In the capital, temperatures dropped to -2C overnight on Thursday to leave the Thames frozen over in Teddington, southwest London.

Staff at Teddington lifeboat station posted a picture, saying: “Not often the Thames freezes over in Teddington. Might have to use the D class [inflatable] lifeboat as an icebreaker!”

The RNLI responded by joking that the charity might have to send one of its rescue hovercraft.

 

 

Image

I read about that but dont think it is as rare as they make out. I have been down to our boat which use to moor at Platts Ait at Hampton. As I stepped onto the boat the ice which around the boat and all the over to the Surrey bank cracked as the boat moved. 

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4 hours ago, Tonka said:

I read about that but dont think it is as rare as they make out. I have been down to our boat which use to moor at Platts Ait at Hampton. As I stepped onto the boat the ice which around the boat and all the over to the Surrey bank cracked as the boat moved. 

 

It wasn't the Thames that froze -

T'was the lock head approach layby whioch is still water - as the main flow is diverted over a string of weirs just upstream.

A puddle will freeze while a stream nearby wont.

Made a jolly good photo though

Edited by OldGoat
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