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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


Alan de Enfield

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A question. 

 

Will the nitrogen in this increasing volume of urine being poured into the cut help or hinder the spread of the nuisance pennywort invasive weed we[ve been hearing about in another thread?

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24 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

SO there are three people saying this is what they would do. Pour it in the cut.

 

And isn't this the exact problem with waterless toilets? When everyone gets one as the OP is forecasting, we will be boating in urine not water. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might help the water levels somewhat ?

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1 minute ago, MtB said:

A question. 

 

Will the nitrogen in this increasing volume of urine being poured into the cut help or hinder the spread of the nuisance pennywort invasive weed we[ve been hearing about in another thread?

 

What worries me is will the nuisance pennywort eventually be replaced by tomato plants?

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9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Not only with composters. It was suggested to me last year by a lady boater that I could extend the period between pump-outs by p**ing into a large yogurt pot and using the open side hatch method of disposal as she did. 

 

Yes, and cassette users too.

 

Most "composters" are at least aware they shouldn't tip urine in the water, because it is a potent fertiliser if nothing else.

 

When you go past a long line of moored boats you can see who tips where - big nettles for land tippers, big water weeds for water tippers.

 

I suppose on rivers it saves the water company some effort!

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5 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

What worries me is will the nuisance pennywort eventually be replaced by tomato plants?

 

 

Are tomatoes a nuisance then?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MtB said:

A question. 

 

Will the nitrogen in this increasing volume of urine being poured into the cut help or hinder the spread of the nuisance pennywort invasive weed we[ve been hearing about in another thread?

 

Increase it, but not as much as nitrate and phosphate runoff from fields - the ones the EA don't even bother investigating anymore.

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

Are tomatoes a nuisance then?

 

 

 

Be a pest round the prop!

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There seems to be no advantage to either pump-out or Elsan over separating toilets, in fact it would appear only disadvantages.

 

The only reason why separating toilets are criticised is because of the issues with disposing of the product. A reasonable conclusion is they are by far the easiest to live with and by a long way the cheapest option for boaters if they have a legal method of disposal; a suitable compost facility at home for instance.

 

Believe me, once you have continuously cruised for 3 months with a separating loo and not needed to empty it in that time, have not had to lug cassettes to Elsan points every few days or had to search and pay for pump-out facilities, you would never entertain changing back. But do sort out disposal before you take the leap.

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When our club used to hire a couple of boats for holidays in the 1970's, the evening ritual on the way back from the pub was that the men would  pee against the towpath fence or hedge, saving the loos on the boats for the ladies. We did wonder if that accounted for the luxurious growth of the nettles!

 

I remember run-off from farms initially being blamed for the high level of nitrates etc. in one of the Norfolk Broads. However, a proper scientific investigation showed that the actual cause was the droppings of the large number of aquatic birds using it. 

 

 

Edited by Ronaldo47
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2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Just to comment one of the most interesting days out I had was to go round a sewage works!   If you get the chance its well worth it.... :)

In the 1970s we used to go to the stink hole (Maple Cross Sewage Works) where you could dig out and fill your own sack with 'humans' free of charge.  Grey and not at all smelly and great for the allotment

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55 minutes ago, MtB said:

A question. 

 

Will the nitrogen in this increasing volume of urine being poured into the cut help or hinder the spread of the nuisance pennywort invasive weed we[ve been hearing about in another thread?

Excessive nitrogen will lead to increased plant growth, including algae in water this can lead to 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutrophication

Although the article specifically talks about phosphorus being the bigger issue in freshwater.

On land excessive nitrogen can, slightly counter intuitively, lead to a reduction in plant species or a losing diversity

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34 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I remember run-off from farms initially being blamed for the high level of nitrates etc. in one of the Norfolk Broads. However, a proper scientific investigation showed that the actual cause was the droppings of the large number of aquatic birds using it. 

 

 

All Great Yarmouth housing planning decisions are on hold | Great Yarmouth Mercury

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10 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Excessive nitrogen will lead to increased plant growth, including algae in water this can lead to 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutrophication

Although the article specifically talks about phosphorus being the bigger issue in freshwater.

On land excessive nitrogen can, slightly counter intuitively, lead to a reduction in plant species or a losing diversity

 

 

So are we working around to saying it's fine to pour the urine into the cut, whatever type of toilet you have? 

 

Coz if we are, then the primary objection to waterless toilets evaporates! 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

So are we working around to saying it's fine to pour the urine into the cut, whatever type of toilet you have? 

 

Coz if we are, then the primary objection to waterless toilets evaporates! 

 

 

No not at all, nitrogen will encourage plant and algae growth, too much will encourage excessive growth,  which will lead to eutrophication which is bad.

 

The whole "it's OK because it's a fertiliser" completely misunderstandings the role of nutrients in a natural habit, over fertilisation is bad and will degrade the habitat, the odd wee will have little effect but regular dumping of quantities will likely have a negative effect.

 

Years ago I was shown around a site that was nationally important for habitat and the number of rare species and it had been recently opened to full public access, anyway the ecologist showed us an area rich in multiple species of moss, or at least it had been but the massive increase in dog walkers and the attraction of a nice mossy site for the dogs bums has completely changed the nutrient profile, so a site that had up to 20 different species, including some rare ones had become a species poor site with 2 or 3 bog standard mosses 

 

Edited by tree monkey
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2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

...........but the massive increase in dog walkers and the attraction of a nice mossy site for the dogs bums has completely changed the nutrient profile, so a site that had up to 20 different species, including some rare ones had become a species poor site with 2 or 3 bog standard mosses.

 

Are you saying it became a dog's 'bog' ?

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2 hours ago, MtB said:

I was trying to lead the OP into saying what HE would do with it.....

 

In my original post I gave a link to a Veolia web page that listed sites accepting composting waste to illustrate that such sites not only existed, but were run by a company that also provided waste collection services which could use them. I then advocated for lobbying CRT to provide suitable collection facilities for the benefit of all of us and more importantly, the environment which they are charged with caring for. Hence my surprise at the negative attitude and fuss generated by what could be a relatively simple and inexpensive solution to the issues faced by both boaters and anyone who gives a damn about the environment. What else precisely were you expecting to elicit from me?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

The whole "it's OK because it's a fertiliser" completely misunderstandings the role of nutrients in a natural habit, over fertilisation is bad and will degrade the habitat,

 

That's kind of what I was saying above.  It's bad to tip urine in the cut because it's an excellent fertiliser.

 

The ones who do tip it in also tend to be the ones who complain most about CRT not clearing the weeds too!

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3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

the odd wee will have little effect but regular dumping of quantities will likely have a negative effect.

Not that it should be encouraged, but it is certainly true that allowing urine to enter the canal 1/2 litre at a time as it's passed would certainly be better for the environment than filling a container with many litres and tipping it all in one place. 

 

Human urine is usually almost sterile (some strange folk drink it!) and it is a very weak fertiliser. A dog weeing on a lawn may cause a 'burn' but human urine will simply green it up and initiate some extra growth.

 

Nobody would condone putting urine in the canal, but in practice, the dilution rate of an already dilute fertiliser would make little difference to weed growth.

 

Perhaps someone wishing to prove the point one way or the other will calculate how many litres of water there are in the entire network and how much urine would be produced if all boaters used separating toilets and let it enter the canal. 

 

Some areas of high concentration live-aboards could see increased weed growth and perhaps already do.

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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

But now you want some other poor sod to get rid of your personal  crap too. Funny how it's always someone else who has to clear up the mess of the ecologically right on...

 

I wouldn't normally bother, but given the trite response and casual insult... Unless you run a sewage works at your house or on your boat then you too are reliant on someone else to get rid of your personal excrement, unless you think the problem magically disappears when you flush. The difference being yours is a good deal more unpleasant for the poor sods who ultimately have to deal with it, and considerably worse for the environment than what a composting toilet user might leave at a proper collection point for transporting and processing into what is ultimately a valuable commodity.

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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's kind of what I was saying above.  It's bad to tip urine in the cut because it's an excellent fertiliser.

 

The ones who do tip it in also tend to be the ones who complain most about CRT not clearing the weeds too!

 

8 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Not that it should be encouraged, but it is certainly true that allowing urine to enter the canal 1/2 litre at a time as it's passed would certainly be better for the environment than filling a container with many litres and tipping it all in one place. 

 

Human urine is usually almost sterile (some strange folk drink it!) and it is a very weak fertiliser. A dog weeing on a lawn may cause a 'burn' but human urine will simply green it up and initiate some extra growth.

 

Nobody would condone putting urine in the canal, but in practice, the dilution rate of an already dilute fertiliser would make little difference to weed growth.

 

Perhaps someone wishing to prove the point one way or the other will calculate how many litres of water there are in the entire network and how much urine would be produced if all boaters used separating toilets and let it enter the canal. 

 

Some areas of high concentration live-aboards could see increased weed growth and perhaps already do.

I use mine watered down at the allotment it's to good to waste 

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40 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

That's kind of what I was saying above.  It's bad to tip urine in the cut because it's an excellent fertiliser.

 

If the person doing it is also a heavy drinker, there is a risk of the canal catching fire and burning to the ground. 😀

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When I visited the Centre for Alternative Technology in Wales in 1976, the gents toilet was home to one of their exhibits, a gents urinal consisting of a bale of straw stood on end with a funnel pushed in the top. Visitors were invited to use it instead of the conventional urinals that were also provided!  When it had been in use for long enough, the urine-soaked straw would be used as fertiliser. It was suggested installing your own in a quiet corner of your garden.

 

My recollection is that it didn't pong, unlike the typical gents today, where fitting the automatic flushing tanks with motion sensors to save water means that many do not flush sufficiently frequently to remove urine from the channel or bowl  before it starts to break down, and have to be provided with perfumed blocks to disguise the stink.  At one place where I worked, I occasionally used the gents on a floor mainly occupied by ladies. It used to be ok, but after the motion sensor valve was installed, in order to stop it stinking to high heaven, I put an old jug by the handbasins and used it to manually flush the urinal after every use.

Edited by Ronaldo47
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12 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

 

My recollection is that it didn't pong, unlike the typical gents today, where fitting the automatic flushing tanks with motion sensors to save water means that many do not flush sufficiently frequently to remove urine from the channel or bowl  before it starts to break down, and have to be provided with perfumed blocks to disguise the stink.  At one place where I worked, I occasionally used the gents on a floor mainly occupied by ladies. It used to be ok, but after the motion sensor valve was installed, in order to stop it stinking to high heaven, I put an old jug by the handbasins and used it to manually flush the urinal after every use.

McDonalds outlets don't use a water flush on their urinals.

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