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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


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20 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

image.jpeg.b1f9d26d37bab9fce9ec8771e0a8f7e6.jpeg

Oh it's him, I did wonder cause I don't have any red wellies, that poor sod spent far too much on coke and ecstasy and is a bit of a dribbling mess nowadays 

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6 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Problem solved then.

So all we need is for all the bag'n'binners to spend a lot more money on anaerobic digesters and find space for them on their boat/mooring, and the problem will be solved -- hoorah!

 

Or they could compost the waste, which is easier and cheaper. Job done ?

 

Or they could not bother doing either, because bag'n'binning is the easiest and cheapest option of all... ?

Edited by IanD
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1 hour ago, IanD said:

If you believe that, put up a poll on this forum (should bag'n'binning be allowed to continue or not?) and let's see who's in the minority.

 

From the number of boats with composting toilets, at most a few percent of boaters are bag'n'binning, They're a small minority, that's the definition.

OK, poll put up on the forum. Let's see...

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Surely soiled nappies and bags of dog poo are just as toxic, if not worse, than human waste mixed with compostable material?

In which case shouldn’t CRT be prohibiting it all from their bins? 

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I really doubt that much dog waste finds its way to CRT bins. From observation the vast majority ends up in the hedge, canal or a council dog waste bin. So this argument that CRT bins can take all this dog waste and nappies is a bit flawed I think.

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1 hour ago, Foggy66 said:

Surely soiled nappies and bags of dog poo are just as toxic, if not worse, than human waste mixed with compostable material?

In which case shouldn’t CRT be prohibiting it all from their bins? 

Well quite and overlooked by most on here.

How many of those saying it is disgusting throw their dog poo in black bins?

 

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5 hours ago, IanD said:

No it isn't "the norm". It's what maybe 1% of boaters on the canals (a few hundred) do because it's cheap and convenient for them, and nobody stopped them doing it in the past.

 

The other 99% dispose of their poo into the sewage system, and funnily enough lots of them seem to object to the 1% who want to carry on bag'n'binning. The nice guys like Peter (and possibly you, depending on how much you compost) aren't the problem, what is are the boaters who are less conscientious about making the waste less nasty and always bin it -- and especially the rising number of them (thanks, vloggers...)

 

No amount of red herrings about dogs or nappies or that it's nice dry not-really-poo (yours might well be, others obviously less so) are going to change the viewpoint of the 99%, which is that even if the bins contain dog poo or baby poo this doesn't make it acceptable to add a load of human adult poo on top, from boaters who bought composting toilets but don't use them as the name suggests and CaRT said they should be used.

 

So I suggest you stop trying to pretend that this is somehow "normal" and should be allowed to continue as a "fait accompli", because it isn't and it shouldn't -- and won't be, according to CaRT. You made your choice, and -- like diesel car buyers -- changing circumstances have now made it look like a bad one, not the good one you expected. It was your choice.

 

And if this issue is dividing boaters, then I'd say that taking action which the 1% don't like is better than allowing the bins to fill up with an ever-increasing pile of poo which the 99% (and CaRT) don't like. Or hemi-demi-semi-compost, whatever you want to call it.

 

Yes there should be some reasonable time to allow the 1% to switch over to a non-poo-bag toilet (or use it properly, if that can be enforced which seems difficult), a year seems fair -- after all, it's more warning than we get for tax or legal changes which have far bigger impacts on people's lives...

 

P.S. Don't bother trying to show that the number is 2% or 3% or 4% whatever, because it won't change the facts ?

But what should CaRT do if Biffa implement a ban with immediate effect?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

I really doubt that much dog waste finds its way to CRT bins. From observation the vast majority ends up in the hedge, canal or a council dog waste bin. So this argument that CRT bins can take all this dog waste and nappies is a bit flawed I think.

That may or may not  be the case but it doesn’t alter the fact that CRT are choosing to prohibit a particular item of waste whilst at the same time allowing other items of the same class of waste in their bins. To my eyes that’s a flawed position to take. Either allow a particular class of waste  or ban it altogether. 
It’s like saying you can put banana skins in the bin but not potato peel. 

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21 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But what should CaRT do if Biffa implement a ban with immediate effect?

 

 

Then non-composting composting boaters will get no warning, they'll be told "stop it immediately".

 

How CaRT can police/enforce this is another problem, because they certainly can't do it with "poo police", and even if they can find a legal way of banning the use of them on canal boats via license/BSS/insurance this will only take effect when licenses are renewed, so will take a year to be 100% effective.

 

So I doubt that Biffa will say "this has to stop tomorrow" because CaRT will reasonably say "that's impossible, it can't be done in less than a year".

 

I did think of a possible way of enforcing this; if CaRT can't do it via license conditions or the BSS, maybe they can do it via insurance (which is needed to get a license). Insurance companies can put restrictions on what they will cover, for example they can refuse to cover a boy racer who puts a 5l V8 into his Vauxhall Corsa -- if he finds himself effectively uninsurable, he should have thought of that before spending money on the engine.

 

What if CaRT tell the insurance companies that since composting toilets are now banned, they will only accept as valid insurance cover from companies who don't allow them to be fitted to the boats -- like for example they might refuse to cover boats with big home-brewed Li-ion battery banks? The non-composters could try suing the insurance companies on the grounds of discrimination, but since they installed the toilets out of choice (and many others didn't) I doubt this would get very far...

 

We should of course hope that it never comes to this and that all boaters will behave nicely and do what CaRT tells them ?

21 minutes ago, Foggy66 said:

That may or may not  be the case but it doesn’t alter the fact that CRT are choosing to prohibit a particular item of waste whilst at the same time allowing other items of the same class of waste in their bins. To my eyes that’s a flawed position to take. Either allow a particular class of waste  or ban it altogether. 
It’s like saying you can put banana skins in the bin but not potato peel. 

Why don't you try putting large quantities of non-composted toilet waste into your dustbin at home and see what the reaction of the binmen/council is when they find out?

 

Somehow I don't think they'd say it was OK because you were also allowed to put nappies and bagged dog-poo in.

 

How is this any different to CaRT bins?

 

Argument by distraction again. Politicians do this all the time, it's a standard way to deflect attention away from the real issue they don't want to talk about...

Edited by IanD
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8 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Mmmmm! Interesting.

I've done some digging on dog poo!

If anyone wants to discuss numbers then here are just some of the many sites that have data. All sites seem to be using similar numbers and seem to tie in with the 'huge' amount of poo our Clumber Spaniel and Golden Retriever used to produce (before we went off sailing) - which was all composted at the time.

https://www.turningtogreen.com/post/what-do-you-do-with-dog-waste

http://www.carryoncomposting.com/142941462

https://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2009/feb/11/dog-fouling-britain

 

What the sites seem to say is that there are a lot of dogs in the UK producing a lot of waste. In 2009 there were circa 7 million dogs in the UK. Average poo per dog was 340g so thats around 2.5Kg a week. Total dog poo today is circa 1,000tes PER DAY. That's a very similar amount to the amount of human excrement in nappies PER DAY. Most of the sites I've seen say that most of the dog poo is bagged and binned (as per the nappies). So the CRT will be seeing a huge amount of this waste going into their bins and likely 3 factors higher than the potential waste from 'solids' toilets. Dog poo is the same waste code (20-01-99) as solid toilet waste. If the CRT have problems with solid toilet waste then they have massive problems with dog poo.

The amount of dog poo is to me mind boggling. I had not realised 7,000tes per week is produced and most goes into bins (like I said, years ago we used to compost ours). I reckon not many peeps on here knew that either. For me that is not nice........and we havent even talked about cat litter which in may cases is disposed of in the same way (and is likely more of a bio hazard - see the links above).

 

 

I think you have a point here. No one would dream of condeming dog owners. Putting dog poo in the bin is now the way we do it in the UK. It is accepted by most that this is OK. I dont like the idea of putting our solid waste in a bin but unfortunately it is the norm now - along with nappies and incontenence pads. I've made my choice to go for a composting loo - and try and compost but will dispose of in a bin if available if no composting  available. Others choose to have dogs and put their dog poo in a bin. Same choice.

 

I don't know where you expect composting to 'become available' , it's not going to happen. buy a garden, build a composting structure, and take it there.

I have found a dog poo in a green bag today, just two metres from my front door, no attempt to hide it in the hedge or anything, what is wrong with these idiots. 

I could put two notices up within two metres of my boat indicating fresh dog poop

Edited by LadyG
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5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't know where you expect composting to 'become available' , it's not, unless you buy a garden, build a composting structure, and take it there.

I have found a dog poo in a green bag today, just two metres from my front door, no attempt to hide it in the hedge or anything, what is wrong with these idiots. 

I could put two notices up within two metres of my boat indicating fresh dog poop

You have it for sale?  There's an idea.  

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3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Well quite and overlooked by most on here.

How many of those saying it is disgusting throw their dog poo in black bins?

 

What is the alternative for nappies?

What is the alternative for dog poo?

What is the alternative for double incontinence towels?

What is the alternative for human faeces?

 

Not overlooked at all, 

 

And yes I have read the whole thread.

 

I have considered a Composting toilet, but not having a garden big enough do deal with a compost heap, I decided it was not for me, thinking putting bags of human poo in a bin was an unacceptable way to dispose of my waste, and given that there is a perfectly reasonable way of disposing of a chemical toilet. 

 

The thing I don't understand is why those that seem to be composting properly are in support of those that throw fudge in the bin.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, rasputin said:

What is the alternative for nappies?

What is the alternative for dog poo?

What is the alternative for double incontinence towels?

 

 

 

Not a lot. It works in the current system. Problem is most peeps here do not know it is happening and are disgusted at peeps putting dried poo in  a bin.  10,000 tonnes a week are binned. A bit of dried poo is going to be a drop in the ocean and no one will notice.

If you ban dried poo, why not ban dog poo? Its the same problem. Both are choices  that people have. Its not essential to have this type of loo or a dog. Is it?

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57 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Not a lot. It works in the current system. Problem is most peeps here do not know it is happening and are disgusted at peeps putting dried poo in  a bin.  10,000 tonnes a week are binned. A bit of dried poo is going to be a drop in the ocean and no one will notice.

If you ban dried poo, why not ban dog poo? Its the same problem. Both are choices  that people have. Its not essential to have this type of loo or a dog. Is it?

Dried poo may be acceptable, steaming turds, a la the ducking and diving composting toilet owners, not so much. 
Dog poo is unlikely to be deposited in the same amounts as human poo. 

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