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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


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Mr HappyNomatea (Forum nanny) adjusts his desk, dims the light and shifts his points against forum members targeted abacus nearer the candle.

He awaits his Saturday fun where someone or other will be trapped in his web of "conversation", and the duel to the death of LastPostWinner will yet again be won by HN...able to post until the moon sets and the sun rises when needs be to win his competition..

Goodnight.

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19 minutes ago, frangar said:

So now you tell people how to post as well.......

 

 

Not at all. I was merely pointing out if you post immediately after somebody else without using the quote button it can lead to confusion about who you are resonding to. Not telling anybody anything.

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13 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Mr HappyNomatea (Forum nanny) adjusts his desk, dims the light and shifts his points against forum members targeted abacus nearer the candle.

He awaits his Saturday fun where someone or other will be trapped in his web of "conversation", and the duel to the death of LastPostWinner will yet again be won by HN...able to post until the moon sets and the sun rises when needs be to win his competition..

Goodnight.

 

Goodnight. From me. But before you go can you please explain your rather creepy stalky behaviour. I dont recall giving you any clues that I would enjoy the prospect when we met when you moved our boat, and I assure you,  you are not my type.

 

If I mislead you in any way please be assured it was unintentional.

 

You are the wrong gender for a kick off.

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14 hours ago, rasputin said:

Not sure where the baying crowd bit comes from, your potential actions are unpopular, that's all.

I wonder if you have read all 33 pages of this thread?

I agree with you that my 'potential' actions may be unpopular - note the word 'potential' as I have not been near a CRT bin since October last year. However, that is not the impression I get from many many respondents on here who continue to use very strong language, ie 'disgusting'. I have had a surprising number of PM's over the last 2 weeks saying how toxic this thread has become from both sides of the argument which at least gives me confidence some members are looking at both sides of the argument. The mood on here from most is far more threatening than 'unpopular'. Would those respondents opposed to my view say that to my face in a pub? I doubt it.

Yes, I think it bad practise to put solids waste from a separating toilet in a bin but today puting human (and dog) excrement in a bin is standard practice and I will always strive to compost it ...but for those time when that cant be done then the 'bin' system is set up to deal with it. Many peeps on here do see it as disgusting but then they fail to see the massive amount (compared to this topic) of human and dog waste that 'they' are putting in the system. The system works with this.

A number of peeps have commented....only an idiot would not have seen this coming. No, I maybe a muppet, but I am not an idiot. With 5,000tes of human excrement going into bins each week, god knows how much dog poo, the CRT clearly saying 'double bag it and put it in our bins' and my working knowledge of the waste management system, I was confident there was a way forward if composting was not possible. The commercial push by Biffa seems to have thrown a spanner in the works.

The CRT's latest statement, posted on page 31 - not a clue about post number!- really shows what is going on. "It may be a regulatory issue"? Cobblers! "You should compost". Yes! ...but nowhere does it now say you 'must not' put it in their bins. It is clear to me that Biffa no longer want this waste in their incinerators. They have told the CRT  that they dont want it. The CRT have likely tried to mount a defence based on this waste being the same waste code as nappies and dog poo and may have had to revise the amounts they allow on nappies/dog poo/others....but they realise they could be on a sticky wicket legally if they ban it completely - otherwise they would ban it and say there is a legal requirement. Therefore the 'guidance' they have  given is 'compost it' and 'should not' put it in bins. Biffa therefore feel they have some control and amounts will reduce. My gut feeling is that this will now just die down with this 'guidance' in place and peeps will still continue to put their solids in the CRT bins and no more will be said 'till the next round of commercial negotiations with their waste supplier.

A longer term solution of composting opportunities would be better and I think Marinas could make a  bit of income by charging boaters to put their own solids in a compost bin for a fee - very easy to check what is being put in ie no plastic etc. Even if 1,000 boaters took to the network though it would be a drop in the ocean compared to nappies and dog poo and the waste network is easily able to handle this as it is. If the CRT is really in a financial bind with waste disposal cost then why not add £50 to our license fee for boats with these dry toilets or cassettes? Remember Elans cost a lot to run!

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6 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Would those respondents opposed to my view say that to my face in a pub? I doubt it.

 

I make a point of never posting anything I wouldn't say to someones face....why would anyone? It might not make me popular but life isn't a popularity competition...better to be true to yourself.

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7 minutes ago, frangar said:

I make a point of never posting anything I wouldn't say to someones face....why would anyone? It might not make me popular but life isn't a popularity competition...better to be true to yourself.

I agree with you. Shame not all think the same way.

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2 minutes ago, frangar said:

I make a point of never posting anything I wouldn't say to someones face....why would anyone? It might not make me popular but life isn't a popularity competition...better to be true to yourself.

 

12 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I wonder if you have read all 33 pages of this thread?

 Would those respondents opposed to my view say that to my face in a pub? I doubt it.

I am opposed to the “(double) bag it and bin it” method of poo disposal. I would be more than happy to oppose your view on this subject in a pub, on a towpath, wherever. 

I have no objection whatsoever to those people who have the facilities having a composting toilet on their boat, in their caravan, in their home, where ever.

I do find the use of rubbish bins as a means of disposal of faeces appalling, that’s why sewers were invented. 

 

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At the risk of diverting the whole thread (one about bogs is quite enough) there's a whole discussion on FB about incinerating toilets on boats. I'd never heard of these, but they could be a replacement technology?

I even wondered if it would be possible to shove your composted stuff into the stove?

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16 minutes ago, Dyertribe said:

 

I am opposed to the “(double) bag it and bin it” method of poo disposal.

 

1/ Why?

2/ Did you oppose it before CaRT changed it's guidance?

As I said pages ago CaRT don't seem to be making this into as big an issue as we are on here.
Do I have a compost toilet - "No"
Does anyone putting poo into a bin worry me - "No" 
Does 30 odd pages of argument bordering on hostility which is becoming literally " bag of sh*t" concern me - "yes" 
Live and let live!

 

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12 minutes ago, Dyertribe said:

 

 

I do find the use of rubbish bins as a means of disposal of faeces appalling, that’s why sewers were invented. 

 

Let me ask you a few questions then.

Do you own a dog and pick up its poo and bag it then dispose of it?

Do you have any babies that use nappies?

Are you or do you have close relatives that have an incontenence issue?

If you answer 'yes' to any of the above then you are very likely to be disposing of faeces in this way. If you answer no, then I am not surprised you are appalled as the thought of using the black bin for any of this waste will come as a shock. I think the majority of peeps here do not understand the UK waste system and the 5,000tes per week of human excrement that goes into it and likely almost that amount of dog faeces ( I am just looking at numbers at the moment). The waste system is set up to cope with this and can easily accept a tiny increase from this waste.

If you answered No to three questions then I wouldnt be surprised if you retained your view it was appaling.

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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

At the risk of diverting the whole thread (one about bogs is quite enough) there's a whole discussion on FB about incinerating toilets on boats. I'd never heard of these, but they could be a replacement technology?

I even wondered if it would be possible to shove your composted stuff into the stove?

I've seen a couple, very expensive to purchase and install, can either be lpg or electric powered, produce a very small pile or pellet of ash.

As the lpg needs to be on permanently, or the considerably powerful electric, they are probably out of sensible budget for narrowboats.

The ash can be disposed of like your stove ash.

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8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

At the risk of diverting the whole thread (one about bogs is quite enough) there's a whole discussion on FB about incinerating toilets on boats. I'd never heard of these, but they could be a replacement technology?

I even wondered if it would be possible to shove your composted stuff into the stove?

Yes, incinerating toilets are available and do work. The problem is how to power them. They need a lot of energy to do their job......normally in the form of gas. I've not looked into it but likely you would need to be replacing gas bottles on a very regular basis, weeks not 4-5 months. The hassle of switching gas bottles would put me off. I guess you could burn it on the stove but that would probably contravene smoke regulations.....and hopefully we will stop using our stove by May.

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19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Yes, incinerating toilets are available and do work. The problem is how to power them. They need a lot of energy to do their job......normally in the form of gas. I've not looked into it but likely you would need to be replacing gas bottles on a very regular basis, weeks not 4-5 months. The hassle of switching gas bottles would put me off. I guess you could burn it on the stove but that would probably contravene smoke regulations.....and hopefully we will stop using our stove by May.

....but then you could use your stove as a composting bin for 6 months, good ventilating chimney and just a quick riddle to get rid of the sweetcorn occasionally. 

Edited by matty40s
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27 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Yes, incinerating toilets are available and do work. The problem is how to power them. They need a lot of energy to do their job......normally in the form of gas. I've not looked into it but likely you would need to be replacing gas bottles on a very regular basis, weeks not 4-5 months. The hassle of switching gas bottles would put me off. I guess you could burn it on the stove but that would probably contravene smoke regulations.....and hopefully we will stop using our stove by May.

And they need a lot of energy because before the poo can be incinerated it has to be dried - basically the pee has to be boiled off first. 

That suggests a better option would be a separating toilet, with the pee collected in a bottle for disposal at elsan points, and just the drier poo incinerated.

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38 minutes ago, Midnight said:

1/ Why?

2/ Did you oppose it before CaRT changed it's guidance?

As I said pages ago CaRT don't seem to be making this into as big an issue as we are on here.
Do I have a compost toilet - "No"
Does anyone putting poo into a bin worry me - "No" 
Does 30 odd pages of argument bordering on hostility which is becoming literally " bag of sh*t" concern me - "yes" 
Live and let live!

 

1/ Because it is unhygienic, smelly, and a potential health hazard

2/ Yes

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37 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Let me ask you a few questions then.

Do you own a dog and pick up its poo and bag it then dispose of it?

Do you have any babies that use nappies?

Are you or do you have close relatives that have an incontenence issue?

If you answer 'yes' to any of the above then you are very likely to be disposing of faeces in this way. If you answer no, then I am not surprised you are appalled as the thought of using the black bin for any of this waste will come as a shock. I think the majority of peeps here do not understand the UK waste system and the 5,000tes per week of human excrement that goes into it and likely almost that amount of dog faeces ( I am just looking at numbers at the moment). The waste system is set up to cope with this and can easily accept a tiny increase from this waste.

If you answered No to three questions then I wouldnt be surprised if you retained your view it was appaling.

I am no shrinking violet, I worked for many years in a hospital Pathology  Laboratory and dealt with human faeces on a regular basis.

In answer to your questions:

No, no dog.

No babies and in this area nappies are collected in separate, labelled bags for re-cycling.

No-one with incontinence issues and, again there are separate bags for this sort of waste here.

 

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Just now, Dyertribe said:

I am no shrinking violet, I worked for many years in a hospital Pathology  Laboratory and dealt with human faeces on a regular basis.

In answer to your questions:

No, no dog.

No babies and in this area nappies are collected in separate, labelled bags for re-cycling.

No-one with incontinence issues and, again there are separate bags for this sort of waste here.

 

I am not surprised with your position then. Most areas do not have separate collection systems for 20-01-99 waste so I can see why you are shocked.

 

7 minutes ago, Dyertribe said:

1/ Because it is unhygienic, smelly, and a potential health hazard

2/ Yes

You have obviously not seen the solids we are composting. It does not smell of poo. If you put your nose right up to it, it smells 'earthy' and not at all offensive. It is less unhygienic than soiled nappies and incontenence pads as it is rather solid compared the mobile smelly mess in those items. Health hazard? All of these items are a health hazard and the system is set up to cope with that. Even the cat's poo that is put in the bins.....even worse than human faeces.

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6 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I am not surprised with your position then. Most areas do not have separate collection systems for 20-01-99 waste so I can see why you are shocked.

 

You have obviously not seen the solids we are composting. It does not smell of poo. If you put your nose right up to it, it smells 'earthy' and not at all offensive. It is less unhygienic than soiled nappies and incontenence pads as it is rather solid compared the mobile smelly mess in those items. Health hazard? All of these items are a health hazard and the system is set up to cope with that. Even the cat's poo that is put in the bins.....even worse than human faeces.

 

I wondering why you would do that Dr Bob! 🤔 (the bit in your post that I have highlighted).

 

Perhaps you are now being influenced by your avator? 🤣

Edited by cuthound
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This is like two bald men arguing over a comb...

 

It doesn't really matter why CaRT are now saying people are no longer allowed to bag'n'bin their poo, whether it's legal/waste rules or Biffa not wanting it because it puts their costs up or worries about public health or outrage from boaters who step in a poo bag left next to the bins or the poo fairies threatening go on strike...

 

They're CaRT bins which they provide as a non-statutory service to boaters and they have to deal with the contents (or pay somebody else to), and they are perfectly entitled to say what boaters are allowed to put into those bins if CaRT are going to continue providing and emptying them.

 

I keep on saying that the poo-baggers are not idiots or depraved, they did what was convenient for them and they were told this was allowed, which it was in the past when only a few boaters did it. Now many more have taken up this option, CaRT have decided -- for reasons some will agree with and some won't -- that they can't allow this to continue.

 

For obvious reasons this is causing extreme agitation amongst boaters like Dr. Bob (and many others encouraged by bloggers) who installed composting toilets in the belief that they'd be allowed to continue bag'n'binning.

 

But by effectively ignoring the "should be composted" statement (which has always been there) and only hearing what they wanted to ("you can double-bag...") they have ended up in this position. No blame is needed even if many people feel it's due; circumstances have changed and they've been caught out, just like the people who bought diesel cars and are now finding nobody wants to buy them because of the particulates problem.

 

Trying to plead that "it's just the same as nappies or dog poo" ignores the quantities concerned and is leading to arguments on both sides, but in the end it doesn't really matter; to stop the escalating volume of bag'n'binning CaRT have decided the practice has to stop, and told boaters this. Many boaters obviously agree with this decision, a minority of people disagree -- because composting toilet users are a small minority of boaters, the vast majority use pumpouts or cassettes.

 

Now CaRT just have the teeny problem of making this happen, because otherwise it becomes like the law about littering -- it's illegal but lots of people do it because it's convenient for them and there's little chance of being either caught or punished.

Edited by IanD
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10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I am not surprised with your position then. Most areas do not have separate collection systems for 20-01-99 waste so I can see why you are shocked.

 

You have obviously not seen the solids we are composting. It does not smell of poo. If you put your nose right up to it, it smells 'earthy' and not at all offensive. It is less unhygienic than soiled nappies and incontenence pads as it is rather solid compared the mobile smelly mess in those items. Health hazard? All of these items are a health hazard and the system is set up to cope with that. Even the cat's poo that is put in the bins.....even worse than human faeces.

I am more than prepared to believe you about the state of what YOU are prepared to bag and bin, my issue is with the (minority) of boat owners who chose the system to save a few quid and are prepared to put their waste, hopefully double bagged, still steaming into the rubbish bins. 

You will never convince me that this does not happen.

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Can I just mention we have booked a Caravan Club site in Dorset for June.

 

I did let out a little chuckle after I'd booked and read that the only toilets on site were......

 

Composting ones. This will be my first experience of using one.

 

(Though of course before anybody points this out they will likely have proper composting facilities)

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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Can I just mention we have booked a Caravan Club site in Dorset for June.

 

I did let out a little chuckle after I'd booked and read that the only toilets on site were......

 

Composting ones. This will be my first experience of using one.

 

(Though of course before anybody points this out they will likely have proper composting facilities)

I stayed in a place in NZ for a few days and they had a composting bog, slightly bizzare at first, it was outside, beautifully built and in the side of a very small hill with a stunning view out of a strategically placed cut out.

The morning dump was a real pleasure,  no need for something to read that's for sure :)

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5 minutes ago, Dyertribe said:

I am more than prepared to believe you about the state of what YOU are prepared to bag and bin, my issue is with the (minority) of boat owners who chose the system to save a few quid and are prepared to put their waste, hopefully double bagged, still steaming into the rubbish bins. 

You will never convince me that this does not happen.

Don't forget the survey (much derided by people who don't like the result) of several hundred boaters which showed only about 30% of them composted properly -- which means 70% don't.

 

Without inspecting the contents of every bag it's impossible to say how many are doing a Dr.Bob and how many are depositing steaming bags. The fact that the majority don't compost properly does tend to suggest there might be quite a lot in the second group, could be a majority or a minority, we just don't know.

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

I stayed in a place in NZ for a few days and they had a composting bog, slightly bizzare at first, it was outside, beautifully built and in the side of a very small hill with a stunning view out of a strategically placed cut out.

The morning dump was a real pleasure,  no need for something to read that's for sure :)

Composting toilets used properly are a great idea, far better than sending it to the sewage treatment plants 🙂

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34 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I stayed in a place in NZ for a few days and they had a composting bog, slightly bizzare at first, it was outside, beautifully built and in the side of a very small hill with a stunning view out of a strategically placed cut out.

The morning dump was a real pleasure,  no need for something to read that's for sure :)

 

I'm not sure exactly why this particular site has them. They have 'traditional' elsan emptying points and don't as far as I can see specify the use of 'green' loo chemicals suggesting they are not connected to a septic tank/soakaway system. Something seen quite often in France.

 

So if the eslans are mains connected I'm not sure why the loos aren't.

 

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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