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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


Alan de Enfield

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35 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Yes, but the sea is deep and very wide. A canal is shallow and very narrow. 

 


Well I've not seen, another boater with 40 years on the canals hasn't seen it, and ditchcrawler hasn't seen it and he's probably been on the canals a long time too. So I think we can at least say it's very rare. 

True I haven't but then I don't spend time where it is normally reputed to have happened. I have seen boats with self pumpouts left attached, but never seen anyone operate the handle. 

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50 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Well I've not seen, another boater with 40 years on the canals hasn't seen it, and ditchcrawler hasn't seen it and he's probably been on the canals a long time too. So I think we can at least say it's very rare. 

Or much more likely, the practice is highly covert and more widespread than you believe.

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1 hour ago, booke23 said:

 

Yes, but the sea is deep and very wide. A canal is shallow and very narrow. 

 


Well I've not seen, another boater with 40 years on the canals hasn't seen it, and ditchcrawler hasn't seen it and he's probably been on the canals a long time too. So I think we can at least say it's very rare. 

Or this is a novel idea they do it at night when its dark and people can't see what they have done 

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6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Or this is a novel idea they do it at night when its dark and people can't see what they have done 

Genius! Could they be that clever?

 

This might be another case of only believing anything that corresponds to one's own point of view. Of course cassettes are tipped into the canal and of course urine from composters is dumped there as well.

 

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18 hours ago, booke23 said:


No they don't. 

Yes they do. I have a mooring not far from the ex- Barbridge services. The services are still shown in the guides but no longer in use. Quite often whilst walking the dog early mornings I see towpath moorings recently vacated with the disgusting evidence of tipped cassettes, toilet paper faeces etc. floating by the side.

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24 minutes ago, Clodi said:

Yes they do. I have a mooring not far from the ex- Barbridge services. The services are still shown in the guides but no longer in use. Quite often whilst walking the dog early mornings I see towpath moorings recently vacated with the disgusting evidence of tipped cassettes, toilet paper faeces etc. floating by the side.

The evidence is mounting up!

 

I understand that many of those who hate separating toilets do so with a passion and occasionally in the face of science and fact, but I've searched the internet at some length for any harmful effects of urine on the soil and plant life and the overwhelming consensus is that it does no harm and to the contrary, it supplies water and beneficial nutrients and is much 'appreciated' by most plants.

 
Yes, there can be pathogens and hormones, but these are in such minute quantities that they pose no threat to animal life or humans, and they are readily and quickly broken down by micro-organisms in the soil, as to is any smell.
 
Urine can be a bit strong and can 'burn' sensitive and very young plants and would be diluted in a garden situation, but brambles, nettles, hedgerow shrubs and trees would just be grateful for the neat stuff.
 
So long as it's the prescribed distance from any watercourse, apart from the fact that some people just don't like the idea, I have been unable to find any fact based reason why urine shouldn't be poured into a remote woodland or hedgerow.
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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Or much more likely, the practice is highly covert and more widespread than you believe.

 

58 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Or this is a novel idea they do it at night when its dark and people can't see what they have done 


This might be another case of believing anything that corresponds to ones own point of view! 

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12 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

The evidence is mounting up!

 

I understand that many of those who hate separating toilets do so with a passion and occasionally in the face of science and fact, but I've searched the internet at some length for any harmful effects of urine on the soil and plant life and the overwhelming consensus is that it does no harm and to the contrary, it supplies water and beneficial nutrients and is much 'appreciated' by most plants.

 

Accepting that urine is beneficial as a fertiliser is fine, because it can be, drawing the conclusion that it is then OK to dispose of it in any random patch of ground is a misunderstanding of how fertiliser effects habitats.

 

Over fertilisation can negatively effect species rich habitats, one of the ways of restablishing species rich hay meadows is regular removal of the hay and NO fertiliser, in fact in some cases they remove the rich top soil in an effort to lower the fertility 

 

The reality is most canal side habitats are fairly poor from a species point of view and it is unlikely to have much negative effect but the idea of it's a fertiliser so it must be OK to dump it is wrong

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6 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Over fertilisation can negatively effect species rich habitats, one of the ways of restablishing species rich hay meadows is regular removal of the hay and NO fertiliser, in fact in some cases they remove the rich top soil in an effort to lower the fertility 

Quite right, indeed some plants such as carnivorous species might be killed by any added fertiliser, but we are really talking about chucking it in the brambles.

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3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Quite right, indeed some plants such as carnivorous species might be killed by any added fertiliser, but we are really talking about chucking it in the brambles.

Which was the point I made at the end of my post, what I was objecting to was the its a fertiliser so it must be good type comment, because they aren't universally good in fact they can harm habitats and lower species count, so your assertion that you found

 

"The overwhelming consensus is that it does no harm and to the contrary, it supplies water and beneficial nutrients and is much 'appreciated' by most plants."

 

 

Is a lack of understanding of how fertilizers effect habitats, like I say much canal side habitats are probably unlikely to be particularly rich but that's no excuse to claim it does not harm or is actually universally beneficial 

 

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7 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

The overwhelming consensus is that it does no harm and to the contrary, it supplies water and beneficial nutrients and is much 'appreciated' by most plants

I did say "most plants" not all plants and I certainly didn't say all habitats. I agree with all your points.

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1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

I did say "most plants" not all plants and I certainly didn't say all habitats. I agree with all your points.

The problem being the idea that fertiliser is good, it's common to see urine described as a fertiliser and most draw the conclusion that it is OK to dispose of it anywhere because "it's good for plants"

 

The other issue here is how are you or anyone going to know which habitat the urine will not negatively effect.

 

I am being slightly pedantic here because as I pointed out it's unlikely most canal side habitats are likely to be species rich but it's such a common misapprehension and can cause serious issues in the right (or wrong) place

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On 17/05/2022 at 23:08, peterboat said:

I will just compost its easier Alan and makes great plants food 

But take away your allotment and then what will you do with it?

 

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2 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Only slightly?

Yup, :)

My point is valid though, fertilizers are wonderful in the right place, in the wrong place can have devastating impacts (seriously) and I get twitchy when I see it used as a casual justification for disposal of urine or any organic matter in fact, use it at home on your veggies where it will be really useful 

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50 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

" it's unlikely most canal-side habitats are likely to be species-rich"

You never know where 'species' are going to turn up. Roundham Lock on the Lower Oxford had a colony of Fiercests a few years ago.

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11 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Yup, :)

My point is valid though, fertilizers are wonderful in the right place, in the wrong place can have devastating impacts (seriously) and I get twitchy when I see it used as a casual justification for disposal of urine or any organic matter in fact, use it at home on your veggies where it will be really useful 

Quite right: people scattering relatives ashes at the top of mount Snowdon has had quite a negative impact locally, but nettles, brambles and the like will simply put on a flush of growth. There'll be no harm done, no smell just an angry bloke who wants you off his land.

 

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2 minutes ago, Maffi said:

You never know where 'species' are going to turn up. Roundham Lock on the Lower Oxford had a colony of Fiercests a few years ago.

Yup and that's the problem, although most canal side locations are likely to be relatively species poor, not everywhere is, which is why I try to highlight the issue with the, urine is harmless comments.

5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Quite right: people scattering relatives ashes at the top of mount Snowdon has had quite a negative impact locally, but nettles, brambles and the like will simply put on a flush of growth. There'll be no harm done, no smell just an angry bloke who wants you off his land.

 

But often the reason the areas are rich in nettles and bramble is because the site is fertile, often from a excess of organic matter or some compound that acts as a fertiliser.

 

Anyway I'm off for a bit

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16 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Quite right: people scattering relatives ashes at the top of mount Snowdon has had quite a negative impact locally, but nettles, brambles and the like will simply put on a flush of growth. There'll be no harm done, no smell just an angry bloke who wants you off his land.

 

And as the excess finds its way into the canal you end up with miles of canal covered in duckweed.  This results in much reduced light in the water below which then reduces biodiversity.   The reduction of the plants etc by the duckweed means the problem gets greater year on year.  Run off from fields is bad enough without boaters adding to the problem.

 

The flush of growth you talk about means more work for CRT cutting them back to leave a useable towpath.  OK not instantly but eventually.

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24 minutes ago, Jerra said:

And as the excess finds its way into the canal you end up with miles of canal covered in duckweed. 

Even if someone were to ignore the rules and tip a gallon of urine the other side of the tow path and into the hedgerow, probably 10 feet from a  canal with lined or puddled sides and bottom, I am confident that pretty much none of it would reach the water.

 

"Miles of canal covered in duckweed" Really!

 

I took a barge down the French canals many years ago when all boat's dumped everything overboard. I even witnessed villagers coming to the waterside, unzipping and relieving themselves directly into the water. What I didn't experience was an excess of duckweed. The only thing that blocked our raw water intake was polythene bags. 

 

And no, I'm not suggesting that we do as the French did years ago. 

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1 hour ago, Maffi said:

But take away your allotment and then what will you do with it?

 

I have friends with allotments, and before I had my allotment it went on my mates compost heap for his garden. 

I could if I wanted  dig over more of my moorings for a garden as its large 

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