C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.

[Dr Bob]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

When I had a house there was bin for dry sortable waste, one for compost, one for glass and one for landfill.

The CRT don't have one for compost, it will not be a viable system there is no way to stop idiots putting plastic in to compost bins for a start. 

The wet waste goes in to landfill, it is not put on a picking line. 

You dont understand the 'picking' line

In your system, the dry sortable waste is mixed recyclate, and the 'landfill' is all the stuff that doesnt go into glass, mixed recyclate, compost etc. Some councils will tip this 'landfill' on a picking line to see if there is anything else that can be extracted of value, leaving the non recyclable stuff on the belt where it then goes to a skip and on to either landfill or incineration. The better councils will trust peeps to fill their black bags with nothing recyclable and send them straight to landfill or incineration so no nappies or dry poo bags will touch a human hand or contaminate recycle stuff.

The main problem with the crt collection is that there is no sorting so if a black bag splits, last weeks curry leftovers spills out all over a milk bottle that has been put in the dumpster separately - and all the cans + bottles we have put in our black bin gets covered with last nights left over stew. This all then ends up on a picking line with all the valuable plastic recyclate covered in contamination requiring extensive extra cleaning in our plant. Food waste is the biggest problem here contaminating all the recycle stuff. Putting everything in a black bag is crazy and worse than 3rd world where at least plastic recycling is done better.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

When I was little Calder Hall promised just that.   It worked out well didn't it.

 

Because hoping/wishing something will happen doesn't make it actually happen, otherwise we'd all be rich and Donald Trump would be somewhere much hotter... ?

 

4 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

You dont understand the 'picking' line

In your system, the dry sortable waste is mixed recyclate, and the 'landfill' is all the stuff that doesnt go into glass, mixed recyclate, compost etc. Some councils will tip this 'landfill' on a picking line to see if there is anything else that can be extracted of value, leaving the non recyclable stuff on the belt where it then goes to a skip and on to either landfill or incineration. The better councils will trust peeps to fill their black bags with nothing recyclable and send them straight to landfill or incineration so no nappies or dry poo bags will touch a human hand or contaminate recycle stuff.

The main problem with the crt collection is that there is no sorting so if a black bag splits, last weeks curry leftovers spills out all over a milk bottle that has been put in the dumpster separately - and all the cans + bottles we have put in our black bin gets covered with last nights left over stew. This all then ends up on a picking line with all the valuable plastic recyclate covered in contamination requiring extensive extra cleaning in our plant. Food waste is the biggest problem here contaminating all the recycle stuff. Putting everything in a black bag is crazy and worse than 3rd world where at least plastic recycling is done better.

 

Yes, OK, we hear you loud and clear -- but what's your solution to this problem?

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

We are sorry but the latest advice is that we cannot accept this type of waste in our bins.

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[LadyG]

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The CRT on the Chesterfield have dry goods seperated from the other stuff, good luck to Biffa if they elect to put 'other' on a picking line. It is pre sorted by boaters, if Biffa intend to put it on a hand sorted picking line why would they provide separate  bins

I realise not every CRT disposal site has pre sorting, so boaters have no option but to put everything in the skip. The solution is clear, glass bins, dry goods, landfill. The landfill bin has lots of ash, black bags, my smaller white plastic bags, and maybe some loose wet trash. Fortunately I have never come across these 'composters'. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by LadyG

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you not think that the law applies solely to commercial operations is relevant ?

Irrespective of it ending up on the same picking line it s illegal for a business to put more than 7kgs in a bin per collection cycle.

It is not illegal for 'little Bobs output' to go into a domestic bin.

 

 

 

Really - 20x  660 litre dumpster per caravan ?

 

 

We do not have children on the site (except for those visiting) - we are a 'static caravan' site, not having 100's of touring vans a week with screaming kids) 

All our owners are 'retired' and the 'peace and quiet' is what they look foward to.

 

All of the caravans are 'fully plumbed in' with flush toilets going into our sewage treatment plant. The solids are removed once or twice per year and are taken to an approved sewage works for treatment. Liquids are 'treated' in plant and run into a dyke (we used to need a discharge licence but the EA did away with it a few years ago). It is supposed to be of a drinkable quality, but I've never fancied trying it.

A very wise business decision old boy. No children allowed on the camping fields here either and always busy and fully booked every weekend unlike some that allow children, Rocket science it isnt. ( covid allowing )

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

Nahhh don't be daft, even if a mind was changed by the posts on the forum one of the forum dementors would trawl through every historic post and list them in order and demand why you said this on that date

 

 

You know Richard as well? ?

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, haggis said:

Millions of nappies??? A wee bit of exaggeration there perhaps? I think there might be a wee bit of straw clutching going on with your apparent obsession with nappies. 

 

haggis

Quite. My three kids went boating from when they were born (before actually), so we must have put some used nappies in BW's bins at the time. But over many years boating I have seen very few boats with babies or toddlers aboard. So I can only think that the number of nappies disposed of in CRT's bins must be small, and certainly not in the millions. 

That said, and given the age profile of most boaters, one might expect incontinence pads to be an altogether bigger issue!

[Alan de Enfield]

C&RT management should be ashamed of themselves they are incompetent - no other word for it.

 

So they post this :

 

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

@CRTBoating

 

·

16 Feb

We are sorry but the latest advice is that we cannot accept this type of waste in our bins. With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to provide facilities for solid waste from composting loos in the future. 1/2

 

5

 

 

Several years ago when BWML were part of C&RT. BWML issued an instruction that no boats with Composting toilets would be allowed into their marinas due to advice that composting toilet waste in the bins was not allowed under the waste regulations.

 

How come its taken C&RT 'years' to catch up with what their subsidiary (and many other marinas, and many other business owners) knew.

 

 

This was the BWML statement

 

Brown Waste

It is illegal to discharge any sewage into the marina and all sea toilet seacocks should be closed when berthed in a BWML marina to ensure there is no accidental discharge. Consider a holding tank if using a sea-going craft for residential purposes, rather than face the possible prosecution by the Environment Agency. Elsan disposal points are available for portable toilets systems, and do not empty cassettes into the marina or toilets. Even if you have a pump out fitted, it is worth considering a ‘cassette’ style toilet for the winter months as marinas do freeze over. Currently, composting toilets are not permitted in BWML marinas under the current waste transfer laws.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT management should be ashamed of themselves they are incompetent - no other word for it.

 

So they post this :

 

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

@CRTBoating

 

·

16 Feb

We are sorry but the latest advice is that we cannot accept this type of waste in our bins. With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to provide facilities for solid waste from composting loos in the future. 1/2

 

5

 

 

Some 5 years ago when BWML were part of C&RT. BWML issued an instruction that no boats with Composting toilets would be allowed into their marinas due to advice that composting toilet waste in the bins was not allowed under the waste regulations.

 

How come its taken C&RT 'years' to catch up with what their subsidiary (and many other marinas, and many other business owners) knew.

 

 

This was the BWML statement

 

Brown Waste

It is illegal to discharge any sewage into the marina and all sea toilet seacocks should be closed when berthed in a BWML marina to ensure there is no accidental discharge. Consider a holding tank if using a sea-going craft for residential purposes, rather than face the possible prosecution by the Environment Agency. Elsan disposal points are available for portable toilets systems, and do not empty cassettes into the marina or toilets. Even if you have a pump out fitted, it is worth considering a ‘cassette’ style toilet for the winter months as marinas do freeze over. Currently, composting toilets are not permitted in BWML marinas under the current waste transfer laws.

 

 

Fingers crossed that they put composting bins in then, in reality it doesn't matter to me but might for others 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Because hoping/wishing something will happen doesn't make it actually happen, otherwise we'd all be rich and Donald Trump would be somewhere much hotter... ?

 

 

Yes, OK, we hear you loud and clear -- but what's your solution to this problem?

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

We are sorry but the latest advice is that we cannot accept this type of waste in our bins.

If you read my posts you would see that there is no solution, in that it cannot be composted by CRT.

If Biffa won't take it then the compoosters collect the stuff and take it home  and put it on their own compost heap. 

When our local authority invested in garden composting facilities, year 1 they put the stuff on LA flower beds, it was contaminated with plastic which ended up everywhere. Year 2 they refused to empty contaminated bins, and after using as much as they could themselves they gave the rest away. It was not a money making process, just the opposite.

Their grey bins were for babies nappies and assorted landfill, folks with medical needs got another grey bin, that also went to landfill. No question of putting it on a picking line. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by LadyG

[Dr Bob]

59 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

?

 

 

Yes, OK, we hear you loud and clear -- but what's your solution to this problem?

 

Like I said on Page one, the CRT need to look at all the inputs and work out a way they can respond. No one on here knows the full details of the CRT position and their deal they have with Biffa and exactly what rules are and arent being broken with what happens today. Only when you get all the details can you work out where to go. We are all just guessing here.  This is about the whole waste handling system.  You then need to look at the legal position between the CRT and its customers and work out the way forward.

I guess at the end of the day that composting all this waste is the optimum for the environment (far less CO2) produced - ie none from the urea in the urine - and most marinas are set up to do it as most have gardens. They could easily charge £10 for a boater dump a months worth (20Kg) and have beautiful gardens. Very little outlay in providing the service. The CRT providing composting facilities just wont work as it would be abused by all those who abuse the network now.

Lets wait until the CRT come out and tell us whats going on.

[LadyG]

I thought Damian and others have had their say, they don't need to provide customers with copies of the contracts or indeed very much more than the minimum information about any of their business practices.

Boaters are like mushrooms, best kept in the dark....... Look what a fuss we make over any minor changes. We all have to sign up to Ts and Cs, even though we don't agree with some of them, it's their way, or no way. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by LadyG

[mrsmelly]

[36national]

who empties the dog poo bins ?

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought Damian and others have had their say, they don't need to provide customers with copies of the contracts or indeed very much more than the minimum information about any of their business practices.

Boaters are like mushrooms, best kept in the dark....... 

No, I didnt say we need to see the detail. Only they can work this out for the reasons you say on business information. They obviously havent done this as there is no final solution, just the output from Damien which may or may not  be CRT policy. They may seek input from boaters but they should make their minds up based on factual data, not the musings of this forum where there is little solid information. Its their business not ours.......erm maybe!

[haggis]

Not wanting to drag this thread on but I wonder if  waste picking lines are used by all local authorities. I certainly hadn't heard of them till this thread and it made me wonder if our local authority uses them .  Different councils up here seem to use completely different systems and not just the colour of bins they use but what goes on them . We, in West Lothian have a brown bin for garden waste and ( unbagged) food waste. We have a blue bin for paper, metal and plastic and a grey  bin for non recycling stuff. We take glass to special bins where you segregate the different colours ( lots of glass bins so it is no hassle driving past one.). The householders are doing the segregating of our rubbish and it seems to work well in that we have all been given double sized blue bins (recycling stuff) and our grey bins are about half normal bin size ( which forces us to recycle as much  as possible)   I understand the recycling bin goes for sorting and the grey bin goes to landfill. The compost bin goes for processing into compost which is then given back to any householders who want some. It doesn't look as if we use pickers apart from the recycling stuff but we might ?

Just asking to further my knowledge.

 

Haggis. 

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, haggis said:

I understand the recycling bin goes for sorting and the grey bin goes to landfill. The compost bin goes for processing into compost which is then given back to any householders who want some. It doesn't look as if we use pickers apart from the recycling stuff but we might ?

Just asking to further my knowledge.

 

Haggis. 

I'm not sure what West Lothian does (but I will try and find out) but if their grey bin goes to 'landfill' , it sounds like it might go directly without a picking line. The key is "will it have any recycle in it" that is worth picking out. As they are giving you small bins and only picking it up on a long cycle, peeps are forced to put as much recycling in the blue bin so the grey bin is then not worth sorting. Thats what happened in Cardiff so the 'offensive' stuff is not handled by anyone. Yours is prolly going directly into the landfill at Avondale by junct 4 or up to Binn Farm up Glen Farg way.

[IanD]

47 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

No, I didnt say we need to see the detail. Only they can work this out for the reasons you say on business information. They obviously havent done this as there is no final solution, just the output from Damien which may or may not  be CRT policy. They may seek input from boaters but they should make their minds up based on factual data, not the musings of this forum where there is little solid information. Its their business not ours.......erm maybe!

Agreed that only CaRT can work out what -- if anything -- they can do about this. But I'm afraid that boaters hoping or assuming that CaRT needs to find a solution that allows them to continue as at present are wrong -- there's nothing which says that CaRT have to do this, unless they can find a workable solution which doesn't cost them an unjustifiable amount of money they're perfectly entitled to say "Sorry, no composting toilets on the canals in future". They can easily justify it by saying "We told you that you should compost the waste, even if we didn't ban you binning it, and now we've changed our minds because too many of you are binning it".

 

It's exactly what they did with sea toilets when the resulting pollution was no longer acceptable (or legal?). The fact they were previously allowed cut no ice, the response was basically "Sorry, we've had to change the rules, you have to change to a different toilet system".

 

Why does anybody think this time would be any different, and for what reason?

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[Dr Bob]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Why does anybody think this time would be any different, and for what reason?

For that, lets go back to page one and start over all again with another 40 pages.

I dont think we will get any further next time round.

I'm off to read some other threads.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

For that, lets go back to page one and start over all again with another 40 pages.

I dont think we will get any further next time round.

I'm off to read some other threads.

Don't want to answer a difficult question that isn't about nappies or waste sorting, I'm going away to sulk... ?

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

For that, lets go back to page one and start over all again with another 40 pages.

I dont think we will get any further next time round.

I'm off to read some other threads.

Bob I have had years of it by people that have no idea how they work, ever seen one never mind used one! As for banning them cant see CRT doing doing that its just to much hassle for them, and most of us on here that have composting toilets seem to compost

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Bob I have had years of it by people that have no idea how they work, ever seen one never mind used one! As for banning them cant see CRT doing doing that its just to much hassle for them, and most of us on here that have composting toilets seem to compost

You're doing it right, like a minority of others -- good for you.

 

Unfortunately according to the survey three times as many boaters are doing it wrong... ?

[mrsmelly]

24 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

For that, lets go back to page one and start over all again with another 40 pages.

I dont think we will get any further next time round.

I'm off to read some other threads.

Try the eu thread ?

[Dr Bob]

25 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Try the eu thread ?

I thought we'd left that.

[Arthur Marshall]

A compost heap (or the required three) doesn't really take much space,  construction or maintenance (mine get almost none and work just fine).  Most marinas these days are landscaped and have flower beds.  If they have people living on their boats, it's going to save them money in emptying cesspits, or wear and tear on the pumpouts, if their residents use composting toilets, and the same for passing boaters.   And CRT could make it a condition of the T&Cs that the marinas have to agree to that they add these facilities.

[rasputin]

5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

The problem here is you dont understand what the stuff is like as you have never seen it - as per 99% of other people here (including the main protaganists on here). That's not a criticism but a lot of peeps are making comments without actual data.

 

If it is double bagged and inside another bag it is very unlikely to spread over anything else. It is not mobile enough. It is far less likely to contaminate other bits of the bin than a bag of nappies. Also it doesnt smell. It really is not the 'offensive' problem that certain people here make out in the CRT bin.

Whilst you are 'worried' about the CRT bin, others are worried about where it goes and what happens when it gets there. Again for transport it is better than the a bag of nappies - so for one boat a week, think one boat with a baby for a week (and then think of the hire boats!!). There is no difference and I await Alans response if he has a load of caravans in the summer with babies? Once at Biffa's depot, it is not touched by human hand as per the other 5 million nappies PER DAY! Again 99% of peeps here have never seen a picking line (or dont understand they exist) so do not understand what is going on in the real world.

So how do you account for the foxes referring to it as fudge?