C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.

[MartinW]

3 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Start a new thread. What to do with fox poo.?

very clever.

 

[Hudds Lad]

Just now, LadyG said:

I assume the Elsan will cope with granules, which are smaller than sweetcorn!

 

 

erm, but it shouldn’t have to, its not what Elsans are for  

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Are the above quotes from an American document?  

 

 

I don't know, it was one of the 1st that came up on Google.

 

Looking at the spelling it could well be.

 

 

[LadyG]

29 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

erm, but it shouldn’t have to, its not what Elsans are for  

Erm, I was suggesting this is the same  sort of output from some of the 'composting' loos, do you think it is better to put it in to landfill? If shove came to push, it could well be classified as bio hazardous. There is the same problem with dog poo which ends up in Biffa bins, its a can of worms in more ways than one. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by LadyG

[Chagall]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Erm, I was suggesting this is the same  sort of output from some of the 'composting' loos, do you think it is better to put it in to landfill? If shove came to push, it could well be classified as bio hazardous. There is the same problem with dog poo which ends up in Biffa bins, its a can of worms in more ways than one. 

Are you emptying the whole content of your cats litter tray into an Elsan point? 

[MarkH2159]

2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

So what are the Foxes Afloat going to do now?  As continuous cruisers, they can't compost properly, and they have made a big play of going over to a composting toilet.  Are they gonna rip it out and put in a Thetford?

No doubt they will have some fantastic expensive plan and take great delight in making a few more mindless videos to tell us all about it.

.....more enemas maybe !

[Newtricks]

My boat is on the Thames and I made the decision to have a "waterless" ( or composting ) toilet when having her built. For me it is not a problem as I am not a liveaboard and can simply keep the contents in a suitable sealed container and take it home until it is safe to use in the garden. I am not familiar with the workings of C&RT but at present there do not appear to be any "composting facilities " at any of the environment agency locks that I know about. My personal view is that Marinas will probably find a way to install suitable recycling facilities in the future and just as technology will eventually evolve to make electric propulsion more viable, then new systems of waste disposal will also evolve to cater for "the market".

I wonder if the "incinerator type" systems will be adapted to take bulk waste at l

Locks or Marina sites ( for a charge ) ?

I have long wondered ( as you do whilst sitting on the loo ! ) whether in the future, our human or animal "waste" will simply be freeze dried or heat treated to use as a form of renewable energy !! (  The phrase " stick a couple of "logs " on the fire could take on a new meaning !!--or is that going too far ! )

 

 

[Chagall]

6 minutes ago, Newtricks said:

My boat is on the Thames and I made the decision to have a "waterless" ( or composting ) toilet when having her built. For me it is not a problem as I am not a liveaboard and can simply keep the contents in a suitable sealed container and take it home until it is safe to use in the garden. I am not familiar with the workings of C&RT but at present there do not appear to be any "composting facilities " at any of the environment agency locks that I know about. My personal view is that Marinas will probably find a way to install suitable recycling facilities in the future and just as technology will eventually evolve to make electric propulsion more viable, then new systems of waste disposal will also evolve to cater for "the market".

I wonder if the "incinerator type" systems will be adapted to take bulk waste at l

Locks or Marina sites ( for a charge ) ?

I have long wondered ( as you do whilst sitting on the loo ! ) whether in the future, our human or animal "waste" will simply be freeze dried or heat treated to use as a form of renewable energy !! (  The phrase " stick a couple of "logs " on the fire could take on a new meaning !!--or is that going too far ! )

 

 

Coffee logs smell nice when they burn.  

 

edit to add:  I like your boat name. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Chagall

[Dr Bob]

It's all very well Alan saying it is illegal to put the solids output from a composting loo in the bin but Alan this time you are not correct, regardless of what someone from the CRT says.

The government advice is

	Examples	Waste status	Human healthcare	Animal healthcare
Healthcare offensive waste	Outer dressings and protective clothing like masks, gowns and gloves that are not contaminated with body fluids, and sterilised laboratory waste	Non-hazardous	18-01-04	18-02-03
Municipal offensive waste	Hygiene waste and sanitary protection like nappies and incontinence pads	Non-hazardous	20-01-99	20-01-99

You must segregate healthcare offensive waste from both clinical and mixed municipal wastes.

If you’ve produced more than 7kg of municipal offensive waste, or have more than one bag in a collection period, you must segregate it from any mixed municipal waste.

If you’ve produced less, you can dispose of your municipal offensive waste in your mixed municipal waste (‘black bag’). Use classification code 20-03-01.

 

thats from

https://www.gov.uk/how-to-classify-different-types-of-waste/healthcare-and-related-wastes

 

Now for the last 3 years the CRT have officially been telling us to put it in the CRT waste bins (see Pete's post above). Last night someone from the CRT says we 'should not' do this. Government advice is that you can do it. You cannot just change your rules overnight. I guess this recent 'announcement' is not CRT policy.

The wording of the CRT article just opens up a can of worms as the nice Lady G says. You 'should not put it in bins' but you 'must not dump it on the tow path'????

Rules are rules and 'must not' sounds like a rule but 'should not' sounds like a wish.

 

The CRT need to sort themselves out and come out with the 'rules'.....but these need thinking through properly and not a knee jerk by one individual.

 

While they are at it, it would be useful is they sorted out their waste collection and moved into the 21st century. Most Local authorities collect waste by household/kerbside sorting. Most place on the canals in the midlands we have travelled to, do no separation so everything is in a black bag. That means recycling at waste processing centres is almost impossible to do well as the black bags contain everything - waste food, cat litter, dog poo, nappies. Waste food is probably the worst - as our black bag waste always contains loverly polyethylene bottles covered in 'orrible last nights curry leftovers - or even raw chicken fluids from the packaging the night before. That bottle then becomes very difficult to recycle. I know this as I am connected to a company that buys bailed mixed rigid plastic from the likes of Biffa and separates it into a mix of HDPE (high density polyethylene) and PP (polypropylene) using some very novel technology. Plastic that is collected from household or curbside sorting is relatively clean and useable. Putting everything in a black bag means it needs significant cleaning. No wonder Biffa dont like the CRT waste. It makes our job of plastic recycling very difficult. The handling of double bagged compost loo solids is relatively easy on a picking line and does not contaminate the recyclable items in the unsorted black bag. With no segregated food waste bags, all that 'orrible stuf gets spread over all the valuable cans and bottles causeing chaos. The CRT at minimum need to provide food waste disposal.

In most 'progressive' councils, food waste is taken separately (weekly) and black bags taken much less often (only picked up 3-4 weeks) so peeps are forced to only put stuff in that cannot be recycled to minimise black bag waste - so then the black bag can be thrown directly into the landfill/incineration stream with no contact with humans. That's what Cardiff/Vale of glamorgan council do.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Dr Bob

[mrsmelly]

14 hours ago, haggis said:

Almost everyone who says anything about disposal of solids mentions double bagging and binning. Apart of course from the few who have a facility to do the composting on their own land. 

In their defence the disposal of nappies will be referred to but I don't think there are that many nappy using babies on boats.

 

Haggis

This is one excuse that doesnt wash with me. Babies have nappies because they as yet dont know how and where to crap. Grown ups on boats surely know what to do hence the nappy thing being a red herring.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

our black bag waste always contains loverly polyethylene bottles covered in 'orrible

 

I do keep telling you to put them loose in the bins if there is no dedicated recycling bin.  Don't put any recyclables in the bin bag, just tip them loose into the general waste bin so they remain clean and separate on the picking line.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Alan saying it is illegal to put the solids output from a composting loo in the bin

 

I tried to tell him that when BWML banned "composting" toilets.  He'll just come back that his contract for general waste specifies what can be put in his bins - which is true - and ignore the fact that it is possible to have a different contract that covers it.

 

He will also avoid the topic that dog poo (Animal Healthcare, Non-hazardous, Municipal Offensive Waste) is exactly the same waste handling code as human, because he bags dog poo and bins it ...

 

 

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Could CRT introduce compost facilities? I'm not up on these but presume they would be just a compost 'heap' ?  CRT haven't got to grips with recycling at most sites yet so this might be asking a bit too much...

 

Also, assume Dog waste can be put into the bins (I can't believe owners don't do this)- are they not similar in their environmental impact?

Councils refuse to remove compost type bins from households if they are contaminated with plastic, that works for them, but would not work for a commercial operation, the contaminated compostabe bins would just be left to overflow. 

Gardeners construct dedicated composting bins, usually three, it takes three years to rot down, other quicker options require "forking" over at regular intervals, again not practical for small scale commercial disposal sites.

Returning to CRT v Biffa, the contractor can specify exactly what he will and will not remove, the Contractee signs the contract, and pays the money, this is all regardless of Government Legislation. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by LadyG

[Guest]

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

So what are the Foxes Afloat going to do now?  As continuous cruisers, they can't compost properly, and they have made a big play of going over to a composting toilet.  Are they gonna rip it out and put in a Thetford?

 

I did think about them two when I saw this thread.

 

If they have to swap back it should be easy enough as from memory they just used the 12v supply and capped off the water feed when they installed it. It was an easy fit.

1 hour ago, MarkH2159 said:

No doubt they will have some fantastic expensive plan and take great delight in making a few more mindless videos to tell us all about it.

.....more enemas maybe !

 

I doubt it. They from memory only made one video to show how a composting loo is installed, and it was a surprisingly easy process. Just as easy a process to swap back I would say.

 

[Martin Nicholas]

BW bins should be treated, contractwise, like domestic dustbins. It's virtually certain that every bin ever collected by their contractors contains bio-hazardous waste; simply because there is no alternative facility available. Disposable: incontinence products, sanitary products, birth control items; will all be in there. If Waterways have a contract for only non-hazardous waste in the red bins, then that is where the problem lies.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Martin Nicholas
Waterways

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Could CRT introduce compost facilities? I'm not up on these but presume they would be just a compost 'heap' ?  CRT haven't got to grips with recycling at most sites yet so this might be asking a bit too much...

 

They have introduced one site - at Stonebridge Lock on the River Lee as part of their London Mooring Strategy.  Now they have one single site, they obviously think that checkbox is ticked.  How I'm supposed to get there before the Ribble Link reopens in April is left unclear.

 

 

3 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Also, assume Dog waste can be put into the bins (I can't believe owners don't do this)- are they not similar in their environmental impact?

 

See my earlier post, dog waste is exactly the same waste handling code as human waste.  If they are banning one, they have to ban the other. 

 

If they are not banning dog waste in their bins, then they must already be paying for collection of non-hazardous, municipal offensive waste (Code 20-01-99)

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, MarkH2159 said:

No doubt they will have some fantastic expensive plan and take great delight in making a few more mindless videos to tell us all about it.

.....more enemas maybe !

No need to take it out on those not on this forum - there is a current thread on this forum with members promoting the value of their Compoosting and other proprietary systems. Since they are now not viable if compliance with this directive is taken into account, perhaps they can update us on how they intend to move forward.

[canalboat]

The original post states:

• If you haven’t eaten it or drunk it, it doesn’t go into the toilet. 
• Only use a small quantity of toilet paper, not half a rainforest! 

Do you  have to eat the toilet paper or put used toilet paper somewhere else?

[Dr Bob]

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

No need to take it out on those not on this forum - there is a current thread on this forum with members promoting the value of their Compoosting and other proprietary systems. Since they are now not viable if compliance with this directive is taken into account, perhaps they can update us on how they intend to move forward.

Is this article a directive? Is this now CRT policy?

[matty40s]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

They have introduced one site - at Stonebridge Lock on the River Lee as part of their London Mooring Strategy.  Now they have one single site, they obviously think that checkbox is ticked.  How I'm supposed to get there before the Ribble Link reopens in April is unclear

Simple, get the Morecambe bus (41?), change at Lancaster and get on the ex Virgin to Euston, down underground to the Victoria Line northwards and get off at Tottenham Hale.....10/15 minute walk to Stonebridge Lock. 

[Mike Tee]

4 minutes ago, canalboat said:

The original post states:

• If you haven’t eaten it or drunk it, it doesn’t go into the toilet. 
• Only use a small quantity of toilet paper, not half a rainforest! 

Do you  have to eat the toilet paper or put used toilet paper somewhere else?

In Brazil, for example, it is the norm NOT to flush toilet paper. Most bathrooms have a bin just for the used paper. I assume it then goes into the normal rubbish bin - or maybe it gets incinerated?

[matty40s]

4 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

In Brazil, for example, it is the norm NOT to flush toilet paper. Most bathrooms have a bin just for the used paper. I assume it then goes into the normal rubbish bin - or maybe it gets incinerated?

Greek Islands always used to be the same.

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

No need to take it out on those not on this forum - there is a current thread on this forum with members promoting the value of their Compoosting and other proprietary systems. Since they are now not viable if compliance with this directive is taken into account, perhaps they can update us on how they intend to move forward.

 

The easiest way would seem to be tip the dried, inoffensive stuff down the elsan point and hope it doesn't block it.

 

Adding plenty of metered water from the tap should hopefully convert it back into a slurry eventually, so just keep flushing and flushing while tipping should do it.  

[Chagall]

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The easiest way would seem to be tip the dried, inoffensive stuff down the elsan point and hope it doesn't block it.

 

Adding plenty of metered water from the tap should hopefully convert it back into a slurry eventually, so just keep flushing and flushing while tipping should do it.  

But dont the stirrers mix and chop it all up so would need to fiddle through it for disposable lumps?     ?......why am I continuing with these threads!

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Chagall
added smiley to remove any conflict

[GUMPY]

37 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Is this article a directive? Is this now CRT policy?

That is what is this implied by Damien.

[IanD]

There is obviously nothing wrong with composting toilets when the waste is properly turned into compost as intended, in fact they're definitely A Good Thing from an environmental point of view. But in reality this does mean having a properly tended landside compost heap, like Peter.

 

The problem is that more and more people who can't/don't do this have been installing composting toilets on boats because they're "eco-friendly" (which they are if used properly, see above), and don't involve humping nasty filled cassettes to an Elsan point or relying on pumpouts -- but are not disposing of the waste properly, either liquid or solid or both.

 

Chucking large quantities of barely-processed human waste into the hedge or CaRT bins or down an Elsan point is clearly against the rules and always has been, but so long as it was only a very few people doing it this could happen "under the radar" -- so they could get away with doing it and and CaRT could ignore it (or didn't know it was happening). Now the number of compost toilets -- and those not composting or disposing of the waste properly -- is going up, CaRT can't ignore the problem any more, they need to stop this before it gets completely out of hand.

 

So I'm afraid that people who've installed composting toilets while ignoring the disposal rules and now find that they can't do this any more (and maybe have to remove their expensive shiny new composting toilet) don't deserve much sympathy -- either do the waste disposal and composting properly, or find a different sanitary solution.