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Hydrogen Paste ?Interesting


Mad Harold
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Interesting snippet on the phone news this morning.

Seems German scientists are working on making Hydrodgen paste to do away with pressurised tanks.

Seems this stuff is mixed with water to produce the gas which makes electricity.

The article is from Visordown,and seems to be of most use for motorcycles where a pressurised tank would be impractical.

If it comes to pass it would be a noteworthy achievement.

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When caving I used a Carbide lamp.

 

Lumps of calcium carbide in the bottom chamber, tank of water in the top chamber, open the valve and as the water drips on the 'lumps' it produces Acetylene.

'Flick the flint' and you have a 'light'.

 

They were also used as car headlights, bicycle lights etc etc.

 

Gas could be used to power a generator , hey presto, 'leccy.

 

There is very little new !

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When caving I used a Carbide lamp.

 

Lumps of calcium carbide in the bottom chamber, tank of water in the top chamber, open the valve and as the water drips on the 'lumps' it produces Acetylene.

'Flick the flint' and you have a 'light'.

 

They were also used as car headlights, bicycle lights etc etc.

 

Gas could be used to power a generator , hey presto, 'leccy.

 

There is very little new !

 

 

 

Plus you always had a water supply 'in hand'

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9 minutes ago, Grebe said:

Plus you always had a water supply 'in hand'

 

Not always, but certainly much of the time.

There again, I suppose being on a boat you would generally have water 'at hand'.

 

Can a boat engine run off acetylene ?

 

 

 

A google would suggest it is possible and gives a similar energy density to petrol.

 

 

The idea of using acetylene gas in the internal combustion engine such that it reduces the demand of the petroleum products that is going to be extinct in near future. It includes about the emissions of harmful gases that can be reduced by the use of acetylene instead of petroleum products. Various fuels have been tested on IC engines for their suitability as alternate fuels. Expect few alcohols, CNG and LPG, not many fuels have been found to be matched with IC Engines requirements .
Thus this project is an attempt for the use of an alternative resource such that it can prove to be useful for the peoples in near future. As we are well informed about the extinction of fossil fuels and its deteriorating effect on environment causing
1. Global warming
2.  Ozone depletion
3. Respiratory ailments
3.Acid rain
Acetylene was evaluated in a single-cylinder engine to investigate performance and emission characteristics with special emphasis on lean operation for NOx control. Testing was carried out at constant speed, constant airflow and MBT spark timing. Equivalence ratio and compression ratio were the primary variables.
The engine operated much leaner when fuelled with acetylene than with gasoline. With acetylene, the engine operated at equivalence ratios as lean as 0·53 and 0·43 for compression ratios of 4 and 6, respectively. However, the operating range was very limited. Knock-induced preignition occurred either with compression ratios above 6 or with mixtures richer than 0·69 equivalence ratio.
C2H2+Engine+1.jpg
C2H2+Engine.jpg
C2H2.jpg
Car+by+C2H2.jpg
Comparision.png
 
Edited by Alan de Enfield
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They didn't half stink though, but you could warm your hands on them.

 

I think hydrogen fuel cells are the most sensible option to replace ICE if the issue of storing/transporting hydrogen can be sorted  and this paste sounds like a good possibility.

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43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Can a boat engine run off acetylene ?

 Acetylene is not Carbon free: Chemical formula is  C2H2  so most of the energy comes from the carbon.  Per Kg burned it will be worse than Diesel or lpg in CO2 produced.  Acetylene is generally made from oil these days anyway.

 

Once upon a time, acetylene for welding might  be produced using a gas generator.  It was a similar process to a carbide lamp, but the gas was piped away to the torch, at low pressure.  The gas generators  were rapidly superseded by high pressure cylinders filled with acetone to dissolve the gas and kiesellguhr to absorb the acetone because,  despite the fact that compressing acetylene can cause it to explode,  and the other problems of HP gas,  the cylinders were much  safer than the gas generators, which were very prone to blow backs, explosions and gas leaks leading to fires.

 I would  not want one on my boat  thank you.

N

 

 

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16 minutes ago, BEngo said:

 Acetylene is not Carbon free: Chemical formula is  C2H2  so most of the energy comes from the carbon.  Per Kg burned it will be worse than Diesel or lpg in CO2 produced.  Acetylene is generally made from oil these days anyway.

 

Once upon a time, acetylene for welding might  be produced using a gas generator.  It was a similar process to a carbide lamp, but the gas was piped away to the torch, at low pressure.  The gas generators  were rapidly superseded by high pressure cylinders filled with acetone to dissolve the gas and kiesellguhr to absorb the acetone because,  despite the fact that compressing acetylene can cause it to explode,  and the other problems of HP gas,  the cylinders were much  safer than the gas generators, which were very prone to blow backs, explosions and gas leaks leading to fires.

 I would  not want one on my boat  thank you.

N

 

 

 

Thank you for the other side of the discussion 

.

 

The article I quoted suggested that the Carbon emissions were considerably lower than using 'dino-fuel' maybe, due to the fact it ran much leaner.

 

Not really suggesting it as a viable alternative, just 'stuck indoors' and looking for alternatives.

So far the best non-electric option appears to be EDiesel (made from algae) subject to using excess wind-farm leccy to manufacture it.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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There have been a lot of people looking for a replacement for oil for transport usage, for quite a long time now.

 

Hydrogen has been a popular starting point, but it is, so far, difficult to make economically and  either too difficult to store or too energy expensive to turn it into a storable form. Metal hydrides for example.   Maybe the OP'd article will show a more successful route.

Ethanol  and bio diesel look  good because they can be carbon neutral, but have problems in land and water use during production and require energy to process the bio starting material.

Batteries filled from renewable sourced electricity are looking fairly good atm, but the problems with Lithium and  rare earth production and consumption/recycling are just beginning to surface.

I am not sure that there is a clear answer yet.  If I was a research scientist  in   oil replacement I would be thinking that there was plenty of life yet in my field and keeping my research grant application skills up to speed.?

 

As a user, I think it more likely that the days of mass personal transport are numbered and hoping that they last long enough to see me into my bath chair. I certainly do not think that by 2050 we  will have achieved carbon free propulsion on the cut. Even a reversion to hoss power is not entirely carbon free.

 

As far as the hydroripp device goes it seems to rely on carbon capture , catching the exhaust gas in quicklime, converted to calcium carbonate (limestone?) which is recycled into calcium carbide as shown  in the recovery block.  It does not say anything about the energy cost of the recovery very and recycling though.

 

The engine itself  will be pretty inefficient, because the compression ratio the article from Alan says it  will stand (4-6) is about 1920's levels, before tetra ethyl lead additives were used, and it has to be run lean to achieve those.  Lean burning usually means high gas temperatures, and that is bad for NOx.  Life ain't easy anywhere!

N

 

 

 

 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52328786

A new material developed by scientists could give a significant boost to a new generation of hydrogen-powered cars.

Like a bath sponge, the product is able to hold and release large quantities of the gas at lower pressure and cost.

Containing billions of tiny pores, a single gram of the new aluminium-based material has a surface area the size of a football pitch.

The authors say it can store the large volume of gas needed for practical travel without needing expensive tanks.

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Actylene is a big NO NO.

Not only has it little hydrogen in it so produces more CO2 as Bengo has said above, it also requires massive amounts of energy to make it ...ie removing hydrogen from fossil fuels. It is not a nice thing to have around (refineries/petrochem plants have very much moved away from it).

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How about ammonia as a potential fuel source? Yes, nasty stuff but I thought it was being touted as a potential solution a while ago? Think it burns CO2 free (although old production processes create a lot of CO2!)it also has a very high energy/density ratio I think. News on this seems to have gone quiet so assume some big issues.

 

  • Greenie 1
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Just now, RAB said:

How about ammonia as a potential fuel source? Yes, nasty stuff but I thought it was being touted as a potential solution a while ago? Think it burns CO2 free (although old production processes create a lot of CO2!)it also has a very high energy/density ratio I think. News on this seems to have gone quiet so assume some big issues.

 

 

Already in the Governments plans

 

 

 

Screenshot (43).png

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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

 

Who you calling a moron ?

 

Can I remind you of the forum rules :

You will not use CWDF to post or reference to any material anywhere on the site that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, aimed to deceive or ridicule, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, disruptive, intimidating, threatening, inflammatory, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, bullying or invasive of a person's privacy

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Who you calling a moron ?

 

Can I remind you of the forum rules :

You will not use CWDF to post or reference to any material anywhere on the site that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, aimed to deceive or ridicule, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, disruptive, intimidating, threatening, inflammatory, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, bullying or invasive of a person's privacy

It was a question, not a statement, but it may be subject to a U-turn once reaction to leaking the "plan" on social media has been taken into account...

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2 hours ago, tehmarks said:

@Alan de Enfield: the difference being, of course, that burning acetylene produces carbon dioxide (one of the many bad things we're trying to avoid producing), whereas burning hydrogen does not.

Burning hydrogen with air produces NOx though. That's why hydrogen cars will use a fuel cell rather than an engine.

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