Shortening narrowboat cabin?

[lifeintheslowlanes]

Hi... Boats a 45ft cruiser stern, hull is quite solidly built, 16mm base, 12mm sides etc... 

 

I'm wanting to remove the forward 20ft ish if it isn't a stupid amount of work, to create an open cargo hold for trading coal from. 

 

As far as I can tell, I'll need to weld in a new bulkhead for the front of the cabin, add a door etc. Remove everything from inside. Adjust electrics and plumbing to accommodate. Cut the cabin off. Finish all the edges nicely. Repaint. Probably want to board the floor, fit some extra pumps etc too... 

 

Am I missing any huge jobs? 

 

Would this require any structural reinforcements to the front of the hull after the cabin has been removed? 

 

Has anyone had this done somewhere before? Could you reccomend a boat yard to carry this kind of work out? 

 

Don't really want to sell and replace the vessel with something else as its wheelchair accessible for a family member which would be next to impossible to achieve with a trad stern motor. 

 

Cheers for any advice. 

[Tonka]

Block or Raise any holes in the hull which may have been there for sink outlet or well deck runoff because the extra weight of the Coal.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, lifeintheslowlanes said:

Cheers for any advice. 

 

 

Have you considered that this may make you a 'commercial' boat (rather than a leisure boat) and could mean that you will need commercial insurance, a commercial licence from C&RT and pass the commercial BSS certificate.

 

Putting several tons of coal in the front half of the boat will certainly have an effect on the trim - on such a short boat it could even lift the stern out of the water. You will certainly need to remove a load of ballast.

 

Maybe consider a 'trailer' and keep the boat 'as is'.

 

Something like this :

 

 

 

[Ray T]

A gent on the forum bought a burnt out leisure boat and did something similar. This was a good while ago now,perhaps someone will remember?

[lifeintheslowlanes]

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Block or Raise any holes in the hull which may have been there for sink outlet or well deck runoff because the extra weight of the Coal.

 

Yep good point. I'd thought about the well deck ones but had overlooked the old sink drain. 

[Tracy D'arth]

You will carry very little coal in a 45 foot hull. The shorter the boat, the bigger the displacement into the water.

[twbm]

A couple of things spring to mind:

Typically the hull depth of a boat built for carrying will be more than one built for cruising, so do some guesstimates of what it will carry safely and if that's a commercially viable amount. 

When empty, it's going to be high at the front end - is that going to be an issue for the wheelchair user?   

[lifeintheslowlanes]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Have you considered that this may make you a 'commercial' boat (rather than a leisure boat) and could mean that you will need commercial insurance, a commercial licence from C&RT and pass the commercial BSS certificate.

 

Putting several tons of coal in the front half of the boat will certainly have an effect on the trim - on such a short boat it could even lift the stern out of the water. You will certainly need to remove a load of ballast.

 

Maybe consider a 'trailer' and keep the boat 'as is'.

 

Something like this :

 

 

 

 

Yes, have my mca boat masters and various other qualifications, crt have accepted an in principle operating proposal.... Hence now I'm at this stage. 

 

The boat is quite heavily ballested, originally this was to pull it lower into the water to make getting a chair on and off possible without a ramp. But in practice you need the ramp every time anyways.

 

Oroginally the person building the Hull was going to use it as an unpowered skip type barge, ran out of funds and the person who bought it added an  actual bow, the cabin etc etc before it ever saw water. 

 

So a lot of this ballast could be removed to raise it some in the water. It has around 3ft of draft due to its original intended purpose. So I have no doubts that the hull would be suitable for use, just removing the cabin that I need some advice on. 

 

Did look into the butty option but more license fees, more blacking, more maintence, plus purchase cost. 

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You will carry very little coal in a 45 foot hull. The shorter the boat, the bigger the displacement into the water.

 

Not bothered about it making loads of money, I have my business which is going fine, I just like the idea of being able to offset some of my cruising costs, as well as add a bit of purpose to me wandering around constantly. 

[lifeintheslowlanes]

2 minutes ago, twbm said:

A couple of things spring to mind:

Typically the hull depth of a boat built for carrying will be more than one built for cruising, so do some guesstimates of what it will carry safely and if that's a commercially viable amount. 

When empty, it's going to be high at the front end - is that going to be an issue for the wheelchair user?   

 

Kind of covered this with my other response. Hull was originally designed to be an unpowered barge. Has about 3ft draft, and about a foot ish up to the gunwhales. So should be able to take a fairly big load given the size of the boat. 

 

Wheelchair user is just a family member who visits once a month, and theres an adjustable ramp for loading it. 

 

I did possibly think I could add a couple of large water bladders up front to use for water ballast maybe? Allowing me to put say 800l of water in the bow would give quite good control of how it sat without much other weight in it. 

[David Mack]

8 minutes ago, lifeintheslowlanes said:

Has about 3ft draft, and about a foot ish up to the gunwhales.

With only a foot of freeboard you aren't going to be able to load much coal, unless you remove the ballast first.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, lifeintheslowlanes said:

Has about 3ft draft, and about a foot ish up to the gunwhales. So should be able to take a fairly big load given the size of the boat. 

 

You will need to comply with the 2002 BSS requirements (which is the version required by non-private boats)

It is quite demanding, for example all hull openings should be a minimum of 10" above the waterline (Most private boats fail that)

 

You might have to 'fiddle about' running goose-necked pipes to achieve the requirement.

 

 

The provisions of this section of Part 10 in the 2002 BSS Standards are mandatory for non-private boats where applicable.

 

To reduce the risk of your boat sinking if it keels over or is excessively weighed down, it's a good idea for privately owned boats to only have openings which are at a height of at least 250mm (10ins) above the waterline. Where openings are necessary below this level this risk can be reduced by ensuring that these openings are permanently and securely connected to ducts or pipes, which are watertight up to that level.

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You will carry very little coal in a 45 foot hull. The shorter the boat, the bigger the displacement into the water.

Unless my calculations are horrendously wrong a 45' boat will have rather more than 1½" draught for each ton added. As you say the bottom is some ¾" with ½" sides it is a very heavy hull anyway. It must weigh in at pretty much the weight of a 72' working narrowboat, and it'll be very deep draughted even when you remove the ballast it presently has.

 

Tam

[BEngo]

Lots of places can  do the work you want.  Where are you based?

 

If midlands then  the folks at Streethay,  Glascote,  Roger Farrington, Martin Kedian, Brinklow boats, Rose, WFB Co, Boot Wharf  as starters.  Nearer London,  Grand Union at Weedon,  The Boat Shed at Leighton Buzzard, Michael Patterson at Circus Field, possibly P&S at Watford,  possibly Uxbridge Boat Centre.  

 

Ooop North?    Worsley dry docks, Stone?, Norbury, the yard near Brewood.

 

There are probably loads more.  The good ones are all busy!

 

N

[jpcdriver]

34 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Ooop North?    Worsley dry docks, Stone?, Norbury, the yard near Brewood.

Ooooop North?????!!!!!! ?

[roland elsdon]

Cant you cut the bow off and add hull sides rather than cutting cabin off.

You would be adding displacement and taking 20 foot  of cabin out of a 45 cruiser deck boat will leave you with very little accomodation.

[Mad Harold]

The idea sounds ok,but it would save a load of bother to simply tow a Butty.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Cant you cut the bow off and add hull sides rather than cutting cabin off.

You would be adding displacement and taking 20 foot  of cabin out of a 45 cruiser deck boat will leave you with very little accomodation.

 

Especially when you consider that the cruiser stern will be taking ~6 feet and the bow another ~6 feet giving a cabin length of ~33 feet.

Take 20 feet off that and you are left with 13 feet to have a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and saloon and still hope to retain enough space to allow use of a wheel chair.

 

I think Roland suggestion is a far better way of achieving what you want.

[OldGoat]

3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

The idea sounds ok,but it would save a load of bother to simply tow a Butty.

 A bit like "Life at 2.5mph" - 'cept his engine is in the shop and the butty is his living quarters...

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

 A bit like "Life at 2.5mph" - 'cept his engine is in the shop and the butty is his living quarters...

??

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[magpie patrick]

4 hours ago, Ray T said:

A gent on the forum bought a burnt out leisure boat and did something similar. This was a good while ago now,perhaps someone will remember?

Luctor et Emergo, once of this parish, he bought an ex BCN station boat (I think) that had been converted to leisure use, new stern etc. The boat had been caught in the same fire as destroyed Terry Darlington's Phylis May

 

It worked, but his was (most of) an ex working boat and he had a lot more hold available. I steered it from Dundas to Bath a couple of times - almost nothing to it , as it had carved it's own groove down the middle of the canal, unless someone actually wanted coal or a pump out in which case getting it out of the channel so as to serve them was interesting

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

??

Have you not seen the U-tube videos under the handle of 'Life at 2.3 miles per hour" (Sorry - I inlated his speed by mistake).

A most interesting seriers of Y-Ts where he explores the BCN and it's history and ties the two together. His intro has the sound of a Bolly but in reality his engine is a Beta...

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

The idea sounds ok,but it would save a load of bother to simply tow a Butty.

 

But a Butty is expensive to licence, insure etc, the 'Trailer' I showed earlier was classed as a canoe and (from memory) was about £20 to licence.

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You will carry very little coal in a 45 foot hull.

 

Someone should tell @Liam ...

[Liam]

Ariel is 50ft, but due to a smaller than average engine room it means the hold is exactly 30ft long.

 

I can put on about 12 ton which although doesn't get anywhere close to a full length boat, is fine with me as the added advantage of manoeuvrability and being able to turn around mid canal (Bridgewater) is a definite benefit.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Liam said:

Ariel is 50ft, but due to a smaller than average engine room it means the hold is exactly 30ft long.

 

 

50% longer than the OP's planned hold.

On that basis the OP could expect about 8 tons capacity giving an increased 12" draft.