Flex when walking on a floor

[NB DW]

Hi,

 

Apologies for the noddy questions here...

 

I've been to look around a boat that's been sat unattended to since October last year and therefore had no source of heat.  The foor in places feels as though it flexes a little, maybe very slightly spongey, but not to any great effect.  Certainly not the extent it feels rotten or like I'd be about to put my foot through it. 

 

The boat didn't wreak of damp though there were some signs of mold. on blinds etc and around window frames, as you might expect on a boat that's been left for so long.

 

There are no inspection holes in the cabin so I wasn't able to check the bilge was dry.

 

In terms of the floor, is this pretty normal and as a result of moisture and once that boat's properly ventilated and heated the ply under would likely loose any moisture and any slightly flex would disappear?

 

Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, NB DW said:

The boat didn't wreak of damp though there were some signs of mold. on blinds etc and around window frames, as you might expect on a boat that's been left for so long.

 

 

Mine (and many other boats) have been left unattended since October, if the boat has not been correctly winterised** then it will be damp.

 

** Keep the ventilation clear, put dishes of Cat-litter (or Salt) all a round the boat, lift all cushions (take them home ?) remove curtains etc etc

[mrsmelly]

The floor is probably rotten. Even old boats floors should be solid. Its either rotten or built with flimsy board. To sort could be a nightmare as everything will be built onto it.

A quick tip when boat buying. Try to buy from a full time lived aboard boat not a hobby boat. Hobby boats invariably sit about for months on end especialy in cold wet winters whereas my boat for instance is very warm all winter with the stove perpetualy going and interior kept dry and warm. Boats left unattended all winter year in year out can suffer.

[NB DW]

Sounds like one to avoid then.

 

It's a 60ft cruise on a Liverpool shell fitted out by Orchard Marina, Northwich.  It's 2010 and barely used - the engine has only done 400 hours.

 

It definitely wasn't winterised as far as I can tell.  Curtains were still up, slightly mold on the blinds, and very, very faint orange marks (some sort of mildew I think) on the buttons on the seating.

 

Roof needs a repaint - it's bubbling - but other than that it's clear the boat's never been used and the owner I met today is the first and only owner.

 

They'll take £55k.

 

ETA the engine bay is pretty filthly though appeared dry but definitely in need of a repaint.

Edited January 31, 2021 by NB DW

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, NB DW said:

Sounds like one to avoid then.

 

It's a 60ft Liverpool shell fitted out by Orchard Marina, Northwich.  It's 2010 and barely used - the engine has only done 400 hours.

 

It definitely wasn't winterised as far as I can tell.  Curtains were still up, slightly mold on the blinds, and very, very faint orange marks (some sort of mildew I think) on the buttons on the seating.

 

Roof needs a repaint - it's bubbling - but other than that it's clear the boat's never been used and the owner I met today is the first and only owner.

 

They'll take £55k.

Can you get to the floors to look or is it carpeted?? 400 hours in over ten years could be great but could be bad news if its not been looked after, just laying idle for year after year isnt good. Nowt wrong with Scouse shells they have built squillions.

[NB DW]

Yep

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

The floor is probably rotten. Even old boats floors should be solid. Its either rotten or built with flimsy board. To sort could be a nightmare as everything will be built onto it.

A quick tip when boat buying. Try to buy from a full time lived aboard boat not a hobby boat. Hobby boats invariably sit about for months on end especialy in cold wet winters whereas my boat for instance is very warm all winter with the stove perpetualy going and interior kept dry and warm. Boats left unattended all winter year in year out can suffer.

Definitely a hobby boat bought from a boat show 10 years ago and not used a lot since.  The oven has never been switched on!

 

I did feel a little for the owner, an older chap, who'd bought it to use with the kids who I'm guessing didn't take too much of an interest and are now all grown up.  Not that it's a reason to buy it or the owner was soft soaping me.  Just my take on things.

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Can you get to the floors to look or is it carpeted?? 400 hours in over ten years could be great but could be bad news if its not been looked after, just laying idle for year after year isnt good. Nowt wrong with Scouse shells they have built squillions.

 

Floors are laminate, I think, rather than solid wood.

 

I'll put some photos up on another thread.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, NB DW said:

Yep

Definitely a hobby boat bought from a boat show 10 years ago and not used a lot since.  The oven has never been switched on!

 

I did feel a little for the owner, an older chap, who'd bought it to use with the kids who I'm guessing didn't take too much of an interest and are now all grown up.  Not that it's a reason to buy it or the owner was soft soaping me.  Just my take on things.

Do you know anybody who can have a squint over it for you before you commit to surveys or anything?

[NB DW]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Do you know anybody who can have a squint over it for you before you commit to surveys or anything?

Unfortunately not, no.  I'm sure I could pay somebody to - there's lots of marinas and boatyards close by - but without any inspection hatches would this even be possible?

 

The owner is 2 hours drive away from where it's moored and I'm 20 minutes away, which is frustrating.

[Tracy D'arth]

If under a corner or cupboard you can see the floor, look and see if it looks like wood in case it will be ply, or chipboard. Ply goes soft if damp because it delaminates. Chipboard is bad bad news on a boat.

If the boat is otherwise good and what you want consider just over-boarding the floor where you can without ripping out fixtures using 10 or 15mm OSB which is waterproof and rigid.

The big worry I would have is if there is dry rot under the floor as eventually it will consume all the wood.

[NB DW]

Maybe it's just me being over critical of it but the flex was only pretty slight.  I certainly wasn't bouncing up and down on it.

 

Orchard Marina (sister company to Liverpool Boats?) did the fit out so I can only assume they knew what they were doing and used marine ply.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, NB DW said:

Maybe it's just me being over critical of it but the flex was only pretty slight.  I certainly wasn't bouncing up and down on it.

 

Orchard Marina (sister company to Liverpool Boats?) did the fit out so I can only assume they knew what they were doing and used marine ply.

Experience has shown me that shuttering ply is used by many.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Experience has shown me that shuttering ply is used by many.

All too common and its rubbish but masses cheaper than marine ply. I love OSB for floors, its like granite, won't shrink, warp, soak water or break up. And is cheap.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

All too common and its rubbish but masses cheaper than marine ply. I love OSB for floors, its like granite, won't shrink, warp, soak water or break up. And is cheap.

 

Only OSB 3 or 4 though ...

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Nowt wrong with Scouse shells they have built squillions.

 

They built 100's before they got one 'right'

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

They built 100's before they got one 'right'

Then they started making mistakes. Which was the one that they got right?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Then they started making mistakes. Which was the one that they got right?

 

It was the one with the minimum banana bend that actually made it thru Hurleston and onto the Llangolen

[Mike Tee]

Whatever room is at the back of the boat, just before the engine, check in any cupboards etc, as often an inspection hatch will be in there (which is normally the lowest point).

[NB DW]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It was the one with the minimum banana bend that actually made it thru Hurleston and onto the Llangolen

 

This one must be banana shaped then as that's where it's moored

1 minute ago, Mike Tee said:

Whatever room is at the back of the boat, just before the engine, check in any cupboards etc, as often an inspection hatch will be in there (which is normally the lowest point).

 

There wasn't one that I could see but then again I'm pretty new to this.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, NB DW said:

This one must be banana shaped then as that's where it's moored

 

There were quite a few, and whilst they were only 6' 10" wide at any point along their length, it you put it along side a wall you may find that near the stern and bow it was nowhere near the wall, they wee 'banana' shaped such that some of them would not fit thru narrow locks.

Another (not infrequent) problem was that one gunwale could be 6" wider than the other.

 

The boats were assembled on a production line with different welders operating on each side, & as some welding was done the hull was rolled over to get to the other areas needing welding and being 'a bit weak' the hull twisted.

 

Always give a liverpool hull a good looking over.

 

Liverpool's future was obvious once cars changed from 'hub-caps' to alloy wheels (their supply of steel dried up !!!)

[NB DW]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There were quite a few, and whilst they were only 6' 10" wide at any point along their length, it you put it along side a wall you may find that near the stern and bow it was nowhere near the wall, they wee 'banana' shaped such that some of them would not fit thru narrow locks.

Another (not infrequent) problem was that one gunwale could be 6" wider than the other.

 

The boats were assembled on a production line with different welders operating on each side, & as some welding was done the hull was rolled over to get to the other areas needing welding and being 'a bit weak' the hull twisted.

 

Always give a liverpool hull a good looking over.

 

Liverpool's future was obvious once cars changed from 'hub-caps' to alloy wheels (their supply of steel dried up !!!)

 

 

I wouldn't entertain buying it without a survey so hopefully they'd pick up on that.

 

The good news is that it's been up and down Hurleston plenty of times prior to last year's closure and widening, so narrow locks shouldn't be an issue.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, NB DW said:

wouldn't entertain buying it without a survey so hopefully they'd pick up on that.

 

 

I woudn't bank on it, I have never seen a surveyor check straightness, or compared each side etc etc.

If you go ahead I'd ask your surveyor to look especially carefully at the hull (not just the thickness which is pretty much all that ever gets looked at)

[Bee]

My first thoughts are that if it flexes everywhere then that is how its built. if it flexes in a few places then its gone soggy. Its likely to be 'ordinary' ply, any laminate or whatever will just sit on top. You do need to find out though as most boats are floored throughout and then everything else is built on top. Trying to repair the floor afterwards is a terrible job. Run the engine for a decent time too, There is absolutely no guarantee that antifreeze has ever been in it and no guarantee that the oil or anything has been changed. Neglect can cause more damage than constant use.

[nebulae]

I have ripped out the floor in a couple of Bingley boats,without wrecking the fit out. The problem usualy starts at the bathroom area. The trick is,to remove small sections and replace,then move on to the next section. Tedious,but a lot better than ripping out an otherwise good fit out.

[NB DW]

Thanks all.

 

Without inspection holes throughout the cabin I'm not sure how a surveyor would be able to tell if hte bilge is dry / sub floor is knackered?

[haggis]

16 minutes ago, NB DW said:

Thanks all.

 

Without inspection holes throughout the cabin I'm not sure how a surveyor would be able to tell if hte bilge is dry / sub floor is knackered?

Could there be an inspection hatch under the steps up to the back deck? It is quite common to find them there bit you need to move the steps to see the hatch

 

Haggis