Where is Sam Springer when you need him ?

[sailor0500]

30 minutes ago, John Brightley said:

Of course it wouldn't have been Hebden Bridge as the canal wasn't open there then. Would it be Sowerby Bridge ?

You may be right. It was after all nearly 50 years ago and my memory is not what it was. Whatever it was a very nice cruise. Thinking about it I believe we were going to a rally, probably to push for the opening of the length from Sowerby Bridge to Hebden Bridge. We had come from our home mooring at Fallwood Marina, in reality a length of linear moorings near Pudsey.

This was of course back in the days of British Waterways. We liked the Calder and Hebble so much we based our second narrorboat, which we fitted out based on a new 50 foot Steven Sagar shell in Brighouse Basin for some years.

Edited January 25, 2021 by sailor0500

[Theo]

On 23/01/2021 at 12:45, Athy said:

probably correct apart from the bit in bold type: the two 26-foot Springers I've been on, including the one which I owned, were both quite "tender".

The V hull makes no difference to stability until the boat is heeled so far the the bilge is above the water ?.

 

Nick

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Theo said:

The V hull makes no difference to stability until the boat is heeled so far the the bilge is above the water ?.

 

Nick

Based, admittedly, on a small sample, my findings were different.

[Theo]

On 23/01/2021 at 14:47, IanD said:

Surely for most hulls they're closely linked, if not exactly the same?

 

https://shipfever.com/what-is-stiff-and-tender-ship/

 

A stable ship will stay upright because static CoG is below static CoB, and stability is essentially how far it can heel before rolling over. Tenderness/stiffness describes much force it takes to make it heel in the first place, which is linked to the metacentric height. It's possible to have a hull (like yours?) which is stable to a large heel angle but is tender, meaning it's easy to tilt but has to go a long way before it turns turtle.

 

Either way, a chined or round hull is usually both less stable and more tender than a flat-bottomed one, so this is really nit-picking ?

A stable ship will stay upright because static CoG is below static CoB

 

This is NOT the case.  You would think that if the CoG were above the CoB the boat would capsize.  The reason that it doesn't is that the centre of bouyancy moves as the boat heels.  It shifts in the direction of the heel so providing an righting moment.

 

I forgot to add a reply to Athy.  A 26ft narrowboat is going to be more tender that a loger boat because the water plane area is so much less.

 

 

 

N

Edited January 25, 2021 by Theo
Add a bit

[NB Alnwick]

2 hours ago, Theo said:

The V hull makes no difference to stability until the boat is heeled so far the the bilge is above the water ?.

 

Nick

 

I have come into this conversation late and have only skipped over the debate. However my experience with a friend's 'V' bottomed narrow boat is that it was very unstable in the water - so much so that people were wary of stepping on to it. From memory I think it had a very shallow draught - probably less than two feet.

 

On the other hand our flat bottomed boat is very stable - but then we are usually sitting on the bottom of the canal . . .

[CIEL]

I am late to this as well.  Here is a montage of the delivery of a Springer for my brother and his mates.  (My "project" boat is referred to elsewhere here.)

The second is a few years later after they had completed the fitout and I borrowed it for a holiday cruise..  My son on the back is fifty years old this week!

[CIEL]

I don't remember Nudge Nudge being particularly "tender" .  Don't remember it having any movement when stepping on and off.  The steel in that boat was considerably thicker than my project.  Nudge Nudge survived many a collision with immovable, mainly concrete piled, banks not to mention other craft without any noticeable plate deflection or dents.  NN is still going strong some where, we lost track of it fifteen or so years ago.

[PaulBrough]

Thank you so much for the Springer information. I have been going through my Dads canal phots and waterways world collection that I inherited. It brought back happy memories of the Llangollen canal and our shiny Dawncraft 22 purchased from Egg bridge marina, around 1976. We soon realised we needed a steel boat so one Saturday morning we arrived at Springer engineering with boat trailer and went home to Hardingswood junction with a 26’ hull.  An old man once told me that Sam Springer had been trying to build pre fabricated houses at one time has any one else heard this?

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by PaulBrough

[Athy]

12 minutes ago, PaulBrough said:

.  An old man once told me that Sam Springer had been trying to build pre fabricated houses at one time has any one else heard this?

 

It does ring a bell. Oh, and welcome to the forum, from the former owner of a 26' Springer.

[David Mack]

On 26/01/2021 at 15:20, CIEL said:

I don't remember Nudge Nudge being particularly "tender" .  Don't remember it having any movement when stepping on and off.  The steel in that boat was considerably thicker than my project.  Nudge Nudge survived many a collision with immovable, mainly concrete piled, banks not to mention other craft without any noticeable plate deflection or dents.  NN is still going strong some where, we lost track of it fifteen or so years ago.

Still about in 2013:

Nudge Nudge Built by Springer UK Ltd - Length : 13.71 metres ( 45 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.01 metres ( 0 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 999 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 75013 as a Powered Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Still about in 2013:

Nudge Nudge Built by Springer UK Ltd - Length : 13.71 metres ( 45 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.01 metres ( 0 feet ). Metal hull N/A power of 999 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 75013 as a Powered Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

Still with that big engine, too.

 

[Midnight]

I first met Nudge, Nudge on the Ashby canal in the mid-nineties. The three brothers were happy to show me round I think they had just fitted it out. I remember the engine room in particular and I'm sure it was a BMC engine. I was on a hire boat. Then in 2009 met them again at Consall Forge. Two brothers one of who was Paul(?) who showed me around the boat at Sutton Wharf.

[CIEL]

On 13/12/2021 at 09:45, Midnight said:

I first met Nudge, Nudge on the Ashby canal in the mid-nineties. The three brothers were happy to show me round I think they had just fitted it out. I remember the engine room in particular and I'm sure it was a BMC engine. I was on a hire boat. Then in 2009 met them again at Consall Forge. Two brothers one of who was Paul(?) who showed me around the boat at Sutton Wharf.

My photos above show them taking delivery in 1979, the first fit-out was completed within a couple of years so if they had just fitted it out that would have been mid 80s.  It was Paul and his brother together with my brother, David.  Paul worked at Heathrow and David (and our Dad) worked at Martin-Baker in Denham.  The "999HP" BMC 1.8 (I think) came from Heathrow and linings came from "redundant" MB export spec packing cases.

Nudge Nudge toured the system each year with crews picking it up where the previous lot had got to - much shuffling of cars involved.  Generally a very reliable boat but when I had it one year the front plate between engine and mountings sheared/cracked just inboard of the mountings.  We were marooned at Aynho Wharf for a few days with our young family - not a bad spot to be.   In the late 90s my brother got Paul and his brother to buy him out as any problems that occurred usually fell on David to travel out to fix.  It was usually minor stuff but the two brothers had little practical mechanical or electrical expertise.  The speed of their fit out however put me to shame as my project, Chrisaliz, only got as far as being gatekeeper at the road entrance to Stanilands at Thorne for most of the 80s before I sold it on unfinished.  In 2009 Paul and his brother had another partner who could do the running repairs for them.  Happy days and a fine tribute to the staying power of Springers.