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Lister Jp electric start conversion.


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6 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Spring/inertia starters are lethal things.  There is a huge amount of energy stored in a wound-up one, and the only way to release it safely is into a flywheel.

  If you cock it and trip the lever and nowt happens ( a fairly common failure state) you are in need of Luigi and the Boys to find you some fresh concrete to put it in.  They cannot safely  be dismantled whilst wound-up and even removing them from an engine is quite risky.

 

N

This is literally true! If it won't release, the factory instruction was to put it in a bucket of concrete and bury it! There's one for a future "time team".

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Are all Jp engines the same roataion? 

I know that a friend was surprised that mine used a right hand prop, believing that all, listers used LH ones. 

 

Would it be possible to mount the starter on the other side of the engine? Ie not beside the Injector pump but the other side. Oh I guess the water pump is in the way.. Mine has the seawater pump which is in another place entirely. 

14 hours ago, BEngo said:

Spring/inertia starters are lethal things.  There is a huge amount of energy stored in a wound-up one, and the only way to release it safely is into a flywheel.

  If you cock it and trip the lever and nowt happens ( a fairly common failure state) you are in need of Luigi and the Boys to find you some fresh concrete to put it in.  They cannot safely  be dismantled whilst wound-up and even removing them from an engine is quite risky.

 

N

 

I had one of these on a 4 cylinder Ford lifeboat engine, it always shocked me how easily it spun it over.. Compressed springs and contained gas always scare me a little. 

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19 hours ago, frangar said:

A quick search online suggests BS5 starters are still available both with bolt flange and clamp mountings...not cheap mind you....You might need to enquire about the rotation but they seem to be fitted to things like Fergie tractors and Bentleys. Of course just because they are listed on a website doesnt mean they actually exist but a call/email might find this out.

 

Another alternative might be one of the "clockwork" starters....Im sure I read somewhere that someone had fitted one with a rubber drive wheel that ran on a JP flywheel......

 

edited to add a random link I found

 

https://startermotorsalternators.com/starter-motors?product_id=98

What's a clockwork starter? Sounds interesting especially if one can be used in contact with an unmachined flywheel. 

I must admit that there is a lot more to this subject than i was aware of. 

 

Edited by BWM
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3 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

Redshaw's fitted an electric start to my JP2. They machined the flywheel to take  a shrunk-on ring gear.

 

How much did that cost overall?

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7 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

£1700. That included supplying a starter motor.

 

Thanks, did that include removal/re fitting?

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15 hours ago, BWM said:

Thanks, did that include removal/re fitting?

I've had a search and found Redshaw's bill. The year was 2009, and the bill says "removal, machining and refitting of flywheel", "fabricating of bracket for mounting starter" and associated electrical work. 34.5 hours labour. Total cost £1468. In my logbook I've written that it cost me £1718, so I might possibly have asked them subsequently to do some other work as well. Hope this helps.

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2 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

I've had a search and found Redshaw's bill. The year was 2009, and the bill says "removal, machining and refitting of flywheel", "fabricating of bracket for mounting starter" and associated electrical work. 34.5 hours labour. Total cost £1468. In my logbook I've written that it cost me £1718, so I might possibly have asked them subsequently to do some other work as well. Hope this helps.

That's great, its useful to have a clear idea of the cost and will probably be useful to the op too. 

 I was advised by a couple of people to buy an industrial unit and use the parts from that - advice i passed on to the op but the complication of rotation makes that less appealing for an historic craft installation, on a later craft i'd be happy to floor mount the starter the other way round. 

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2 hours ago, BWM said:

That's great, its useful to have a clear idea of the cost and will probably be useful to the op too. 

 I was advised by a couple of people to buy an industrial unit and use the parts from that - advice i passed on to the op but the complication of rotation makes that less appealing for an historic craft installation, on a later craft i'd be happy to floor mount the starter the other way round. 

I've remembered what the discrepency in prices was. Paul had to source a second hand starter motor before work would start. It cost him £250, so I reimbursed him.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi everyone. 

Just to update this thread. I found an industrial JS3 and bought that thinking it ideal because it would supply a flywheel for my friends boat and an engines worth of spares for the JS in Prince. 

 

However. 

 

Having just got both flywheels off I can see that the reverse sides are quite different. I was expecting the JS one to have no provision for the hand start mechanism and suspected I'd have to fabricate an adaptor to take the JP sprocket etc. 

On further investigation though, not only is the rear hub substantially smaller diameter but crucially the tapered section is actually about 3/4in deeper than on the JP, meaning the widest point of the taper is wider on the JS flywheel than the other one. 

 

To further complicate matters it looks like that, depth of taper is pretty important as the flywheel seems to close up tight to the crank end seal housing so a deeper taper would just hit that housing and not tighten.. 

 

I have included some photos here so hopefully people will understand what I'm getting at! 

 

Any advice on this matter would be much appreciated! 

IMG_20210405_181338_resized_20210405_064750150.jpg

IMG_20210405_181455_resized_20210405_064750401.jpg

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The f/wheel with the starter ring looks to have separate parts where the hand start pawls would be. Also, that looks like a  taper sleeve fitted  in the centre, I don't know why, unless the  taper has been damaged at some point and repaired by boring out and fitting the sleeve

See you soon!

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1 minute ago, billh said:

The f/wheel with the starter ring looks to have separate parts where the hand start pawls would be. Also, that looks like a  taper sleeve fitted  in the centre, I don't know why, unless the  taper has been damaged at some point and repaired by boring out and fitting the sleeve

See you soon!

 

Let's have a look later! 

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  • 2 months later...

Just to let everyone know that I finally got the electric start sorted. I bought a JS3 industrial engine and used the flywheel from that but it had a different reverse side so the hand start gear would not fit. 

 

To remedy this I designed an adapter plate on cad and got that laser cut/machined. 

This allowed me to refit the had start gear, reinstall the flywheel and fabricate a bracket for the starter. 

 

I'm happy to say that it starts well and runs fine. 

 

If anyone is doing the same and wants a copy of the cad file I'd be happy to send it. 

  • Greenie 2
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