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New '5-minute charge' BEV batteries.


Alan de Enfield

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

...until you look at the costs and practicalities of doing it ?

 

Hard enough to justify (at least in the UK) for railways which have a fixed loading gauge and closely controlled stock and a relatively small mileage. Now do that on a motorway open to the public -- how high up do the 25kV cables have to be, how do you keep people away from them, what about overheight vehicles, what happens when a ladder falls off a roofrack, how often are they brought down by accidents, where do the support pillars and gantries go (width is many times bigger than railways)...

 

It's like flying cars and elevated monorails, one of those things that looks pretty in futuristic drawings but doesn't add up in real life.

One lane and its being trialed in countries already and money is being made available here its the future

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjApNfUmbfuAhWGilwKHarbCo8QFjAEegQIEBAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.connected2.io%2Fblog%2Finstallation-of-overhead-cables-on-motorways-for-electric-trucks-getting-closer&usg=AOvVaw01ZO1L6aLal50E7UU4IOO0

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1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

When was that? I left Sheffield in '66 and don't recall them. 

They had a couple of them which they trialed I remember going to the manor top on one, when they were retired they ended up in Greenland road depot my business partner remembers them sitting in a corner for many years. My uncle was a bus driver and he had driven them and thought them better than trams or the diesel buses, the problem was they required two overhead lines so the routes they went on were very small.

In Rotherham we only had trolley buses that I can remember, they had trams earlier but they stopped before my time,

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1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

When was that? I left Sheffield in '66 and don't recall them. 

No trolleybuses in Sheffield, but they ran in Rotherham until 1965 (and Mexborough until 1961).The last trolleybuses in public service in the UK (excluding museums) were in Bradford, which closed in 1972. Just before the 1973 oil crisis which sharply increased the price of the diesel fuel for the replacement motor buses!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trolleybus_systems_in_the_United_Kingdom

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1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

When was that? I left Sheffield in '66 and don't recall them. 

Second attempt! internet crashed first time, they had them on limited routes because they required two lines, it was just a trial and my uncle drove them he said they were better than the trams and buses of the time. They were retired to Greenland road depot where they sat for years my business partner remembers them, Rotherham went into them in a big way and I traveled on them a lot in my youth

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

No trolleybuses in Sheffield, but they ran in Rotherham until 1965 (and Mexborough until 1961).The last trolleybuses in public service in the UK (excluding museums) were in Bradford, which closed in 1972. Just before the 1973 oil crisis which sharply increased the price of the diesel fuel for the replacement motor buses!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trolleybus_systems_in_the_United_Kingdom

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On 14/12/2011 at 10:54, Bayleaf said:

I watched the programme on trams the other night, and some old questions stirred in my mind.

 

Sheffield kept its trams longer than most places, but did it ever have trolley buses, or even try them out?

We have discussed this one before. There was a trial way back in the midsts of time but there is no official record of them running in later years

 

As I said my uncle drove them and they ended up in Greenland road depot in a corner for many years

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24 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They had a couple of them which they trialed I remember going to the manor top on one, when they were retired they ended up in Greenland road depot my business partner remembers them sitting in a corner for many years. My uncle was a bus driver and he had driven them and thought them better than trams or the diesel buses, the problem was they required two overhead lines so the routes they went on were very small.

In Rotherham we only had trolley buses that I can remember, they had trams earlier but they stopped before my time,

Been reading online about trolley buses in Sheffield, much debate whether they existed, someone seemed to recall going up City Rd on one, it would have required installation of double catenary supply, more likely would have been using one on the tram tracks with a DC return trailing arm in the track, possible considering it was only a trial.

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1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

Been reading online about trolley buses in Sheffield, much debate whether they existed, someone seemed to recall going up City Rd on one, it would have required installation of double catenary supply, more likely would have been using one in the tram tracks with a DC return trailing arm in the track, possible considering it was only a trial.

My uncle drove them to the the Maner top, so yes it would have been on the city road, as I said he rated them as being quieter than trams and more powerful than buses. He drove them after the war until his retirement at 65, I questioned him about it because the transport museum at black country living museum said they never ran trolley buses and I could remember being on one, my business partner said they did and he confirmed it. In reality the upheaval would have been huge to add a second overhead line

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6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My uncle drove them to the the Maner top, so yes it would have been on the city road, as I said he rated them as being quieter than trams and more powerful than buses. He drove them after the war until his retirement at 65, I questioned him about it because the transport museum at black country living museum said they never ran trolley buses and I could remember being on one, my business partner said they did and he confirmed it. In reality the upheaval would have been huge to add a second overhead line

I used to love the trams, I remember them out accelerating buses up Prince of Wales Rd, but I only remember trolley buses in Rotherham. 

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Soon to on a motorway near you, Its a good idea and removes the need of a huge battery bank on trucks

All I can say is -- I'll believe it when I see it ?

 

Like maglev trains there's no technical obstacle to doing this (hence the trials), but there are plenty of practical ones rolling it out -- and more to the point, a massive capital investment in transport infrastructure is needed, which let's face it government in the UK have been disastrously bad at for a very long time. I read the article, and the simple question is -- who pays?

 

I agree that it avoids the battery bank/recharging problem on trucks, but the cost of this is borne by the transport fleet operators, the cost of overhead wires has to be borne by the government -- and since they won't want to give truckers a "free ride" you can bet they'll find a way of getting this money back from them. And if this all costs more than truck batteries and chargers, it won't happen. Not forgetting that coverage matters, so until these overhead lines cover most of the long truck routes the trucks *also* have to keep the battery banks and chargers, meaning a double cost whammy.

 

It's like the case for electric trains -- and the UK has enough of a problem making those happen -- except that trains are far more tightly locked to a given route than trucks, and are all identical and owned by very few companies.

 

Maybe if we combined the overhead wires idea with the idea of trucks travelling in a close-spaced synchronised convoy this would help reduce drag and save energy? In fact, you could have just one driver at the front. Then you could tie the trucks together physically, and maybe have one big engine where the driver is instead of lots of them, this would make it cheaper and save more energy too. And to save even more, we could replace those energy-sapping short-lived rubber tyres running on lumpy tarmac with steel wheels running on smooth steel strips in the road... ?

Edited by IanD
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3 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

I used to love the trams, I remember them out accelerating buses up Prince of Wales Rd, but I only remember trolley buses in Rotherham. 

Uncle Gordon lived on Hastilar road just just of the Prince of wales road, it was my Grandads and nans house big corner plot nice house once upon a time the place to live the manor was at one point the worst estate to live in in Sheffield!!

But uncle Gordon did drive a trolley bus even if it was only on trial [wonder if it was found innocent or guilty?]

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3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Uncle Gordon lived on Hastilar road just just of the Prince of wales road, it was my Grandads and nans house big corner plot nice house once upon a time the place to live the manor was at one point the worst estate to live in in Sheffield!!

But uncle Gordon did drive a trolley bus even if it was only on trial [wonder if it was found innocent or guilty?]

I was born and bred on the Manor (Stonecliffe Rd) Great place for kids in the 50s but it began to go downhill when I left in '66, sad decline but the area looks much better now. 

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1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

I was born and bred on the Manor (Stonecliffe Rd) Great place for kids in the 50s but it began to go downhill when I left in '66, sad decline but the area looks much better now. 

I agree we visited Nan every Saturday, we went by bus from Swallownest to Sheffield went to the market and castle market had dinner in the cafe on the balcony then bus or tram up to manor top then bus or tram to Nans happy days the early 60s, by the time you left it was on the way down. By the 70s Nan had moved to Park hill flats and we visited on a Sunday as I was a rugby player at school in the winter and a dingy sailor in the summer. she died in the late 70s whilst I was in Hereford got back for her funeral at City road Crem, everybody on Mums side has done their last journey from there

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15 hours ago, peterboat said:

I agree we visited Nan every Saturday, we went by bus from Swallownest to Sheffield went to the market and castle market had dinner in the cafe on the balcony then bus or tram up to manor top then bus or tram to Nans happy days the early 60s, by the time you left it was on the way down. By the 70s Nan had moved to Park hill flats and we visited on a Sunday as I was a rugby player at school in the winter and a dingy sailor in the summer. she died in the late 70s whilst I was in Hereford got back for her funeral at City road Crem, everybody on Mums side has done their last journey from there

How life has changed!

We used to go and visit our Nan every Sunday in the early 60's. 25 minute walk to the station then train from West Kirby to Liverpool central then a bus out to Sefton Park. There were 3 children and we got 6s 8p each (that's a £1 split into 3 for the youngsters here!). Only the rich had cars in those days. Kids have it easy these days.

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10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

We used to go and visit our Nan every Sunday

 

For me, it was Saturday - I'd be aged about 10 or 11. 

I had bought a secondhand Dawes Racing bike in an Auction at Nottingham cattle market, for the princely sum of £10 (which was a lot of money, and only acquired by catching and selling a lot of wild rabbits) and would cycle 20 miles to my Nannies house, she'd have a home-made beef pie' and mash for my lunch, a brief rest and back home again.

 

I had a battery powered wireless strapped to my handlebars which was tuned into "208 - radioooooo Luxembouggggggg"

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2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Only the rich had cars in those days. Kids have it easy these days.

You say that but dad was a humble postman and and we lived in a council house, in 1951 when I was four I can remember the 7 seater Humber Super Snipe we owned, granted I was the youngest of 5 and things were getting better financially but we were far from rich!

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They still use trolley buses in Limoges  and there is a proposal for battery powered ones so they can run beyond the wire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Limoges 

 

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/in-motion-charging-makes-its-way-in-limoges-france-three-crealis-delivered/

 

the thought of trolley lorries is a bit concerning I can imagine one pulling into the fast lane and loosing contact at 70mph

 

battery trains are coming too

 

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hitachi-rail-global/pressreleases/hitachi-rail-and-hyperdrive-agreement-opens-way-for-battery-trains-across-britain-3019165

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2 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

 

They still use trolley buses in Limoges  and there is a proposal for battery powered ones so they can run beyond the wire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Limoges 

 

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/in-motion-charging-makes-its-way-in-limoges-france-three-crealis-delivered/

 

the thought of trolley lorries is a bit concerning I can imagine one pulling into the fast lane and loosing contact at 70mph

 

battery trains are coming too

 

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hitachi-rail-global/pressreleases/hitachi-rail-and-hyperdrive-agreement-opens-way-for-battery-trains-across-britain-3019165

They have trolley buses in Athens they have a battery backup and a diesel generator worked well on the few times we traveled on them

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