Boating acronyms

[magnetman]

Alas thought I and my heart beat loud

 

How fast she nears and nears

 

Are those her sails which glance in the sun like restless gossameres?

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Where is Gyb Ho when you want him ?

 

He sends his apologies, he is just booting up U-tube to try and find the answer.

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Where is Gyb Ho when you want him ?

Gyb Ho, “Spanker” that’s a homophone not an acronym.

 

[Gybe Ho]

40 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Where is Gyb Ho when you want him ?

 

iNEDBRIATED and incoherent. Swmbo force fed me two stiff G&Ts to consume in the sun to wind down after 2 days of mortal combat with the marine trade.

 

Spinnakers necessitate the phrase "dump the main" when a spinnaker overwhelms a racing yacht and the angle of heel causes water to flow over the side deck into the cockpit. Sometime heard during "round the cans" racing in the Solent when yachts are pushed beyond their design limit.

 

Edited April 30, 2025 by Gybe Ho

[gatekrash]

Also nicknamed a spin-maker after a Chinese gybe in a serious blow.

 

Only time I've ever had to get on the keel of a yacht (Laser 28 it was - as seen on Howard's Way!) to try and get it upright, even dumping the spin halyard hadn't worked, the mast had already filled with water by the time we got it free.

[TheShipsCat]

This is not about an acronym, but general terminology.

 

What is the name of the diesel engine type in a traditional narrow boat with a boatman's cabin, the kind that goes chug... Chug... Chug.

 

And Is that a single cylinder?

[David Mack]

You're probably thinking of a Bolinder.

The Swedish-built Bolinder semi-diesel* was probably the first internal combustion engine used successfully in narrow boats, and many motor boats were built with them from around 1920 , particularly in the fleet of Fellows Morton & Clayton. From the mid 1930s they were superseded by twin cylinder 'high speed' diesel engines, of which the National 2DM and Russell Newbery DM2 are the best known of the early models, being fitted to the new GUCCC fleet.

 

*They were called semi diesels as they has a 'hot bulb' in the cylinder head which had to be preheated before starting by a blowtorch, and was then kept hot by the combustion. (Later 'full diesel' engines have a higher compression ratio and the diesel ignites as a result of the compression alone). 9hp and 15hp single cylinder Bolinders were typically fitted in narrow boats, but multi cylinder versions were also built. There is a 320hp 4 cylinder Bolinder in the Yavari on Lake Titicaca in Peru.

The early Bolinders are two stroke engines and will run in either direction - indeed they are fitted with a clutch but no reversing gearbox, and the steerer has to reverse the whole engine to go astern (and the direction of rotating on first starting can be a bit random).

 

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

You're probably thinking of a Bolinder.

The Swedish-built Bolinder semi-diesel* was probably the first internal combustion engine used successfully in narrow boats, and many motor boats were built with them from around 1920 , particularly in the fleet of Fellows Morton & Clayton. From the mid 1930s they were superseded by twin cylinder 'high speed' diesel engines, of which the National 2DM and Russell Newbery DM2 are the best known of the early models, being fitted to the new GUCCC fleet.

 

*They were called semi diesels as they has a 'hot bulb' in the cylinder head which had to be preheated before starting by a blowtorch, and was then kept hot by the combustion. (Later 'full diesel' engines have a higher compression ratio and the diesel ignites as a result of the compression alone). 9hp and 15hp single cylinder Bolinders were typically fitted in narrow boats, but multi cylinder versions were also built. There is a 320hp 4 cylinder Bolinder in the Yavari on Lake Titicaca in Peru.

The early Bolinders are two stroke engines and will run in either direction - indeed they are fitted with a clutch but no reversing gearbox, and the steerer has to reverse the whole engine to go astern (and the direction of rotating on first starting can be a bit random).

 

And said engine reversing to go astern is not exactly reliable either, sometimes leading to "interesting" consequences when it just stops instead at a critical moment... 😉

[TheShipsCat]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

They were called semi diesels as they has a 'hot bulb' in the cylinder head which had to be preheated before starting by a blowtorch, and was then kept hot by the combustion. (Later 'full diesel' engines have a higher compression ratio and the diesel ignites as a result of the compression alone).

Shall I assume that the many extant engines of this kind that I hear all over the place are usually the full diesel versions?  I doubt that many boaters of this day want to start their engines with a blowtorch. 🤣

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

And said engine reversing to go astern is not exactly reliable either, sometimes leading to "interesting" consequences when it just stops instead at a critical moment... 😉

Oh, but things were so much better in the goode olde days, weren't they?

 

There's an outfit in Braunston Marina that hires one of these.  I waved it in front of my wife and said "How 'bout this?"

Says she:  No. Freaking. Way. 

[springy]

49 minutes ago, TheShipsCat said:

Shall I assume that the many extant engines of this kind that I hear all over the place are usually the full diesel versions?  I doubt that many boaters of this day want to start their engines with a blowtorch. 🤣

 

 

On the contrary, I suspect even now there are still more single cylinder hot bulbs than the later full diesel bolinders in narrowboats, they also  have a distinctive uneven beat due to the use of a "Hit and Miss" governor - when working hard they will hit every beat but on lower loads they will hit one miss two, hit one miss three hit two miss three etc. - you never can tell when you will get a firing stroke. Many have however replaced the sievert paraffin blowlamp with a gas burner.

 

springy

[TheShipsCat]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, springy said:

...use of a "Hit and Miss" governor - when working hard they will hit every beat but on lower loads they will hit one miss two, hit one miss three hit two miss three etc. - you never can tell when you will get a firing stroke. 

So at low load 2/3 to 3/4 of fuel is sent uncombusted into the atmosphere?

[IanD]

Just now, TheShipsCat said:

 

 

So at low load 2/3 to 3/4 of fuel is sent uncombusted into the atmosphere?

No, the hit-and-miss governer either injects a dose of fuel <bonk> or none <pause>... 😉

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

No, the hit-and-miss governer either injects a dose of fuel <bonk> or none <pause>... 😉

... whereas more modern engines vary the amount of fuel injected every stroke.

2 hours ago, springy said:

On the contrary, I suspect even now there are still more single cylinder hot bulbs than the later full diesel bolinders in narrowboats

Yes. Bolinders later built full diesels of which the 2 cylinder 1052 (and occasionally 3 cylinder 1053) can be found in narrow boats in small numbers.

Gardners also built single cylinder semi diesel engines of which some remain in the ex Cowburn and Cowpar boats Swan and Skylark (and possibly others?).

From the mid 1930s 2 cylinder engines of 18-20 hp at 1000rpm became the norm - the Nationals and RNs mentioned earlier, but also Lister JP2s and amongst others. Post war, air cooled engines such as the Lister HA2 and its derivatives and Petter PD2 became popular. These tend to be slightly higher power and speed - around 1800rpm max.

Into the leisure years and all sorts of vehicle and plant based engines found their way into boats, the Lister SR2/SR3 and the BMC (later British Leyland) 1.5 litre (4 cylinder) being particularly popular in the 1960s-80s.

 

Re-engined former working boats and modern boats with traditional engine room designed to resemble them may have engine models that were traditionally fitted to working boats, or other slow running heavy two (usually) cylinder engines such as the Gardner 2LW and various Kelvins, Rustons, Dormans etc. which have similar characteristics (and engine note). Indeed copies of a Ruston engine built by Greaves of India under licence were still being imported and supplied to the narrow boat market into the 1990s, and Peter Thompson of Marine Engine Services in Uxbridge was selling some similar new engines from (I think) Latvia before these all fell foul of new EU emissions requirements.

[springy]

15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

... whereas more modern engines vary the amount of fuel injected every stroke.

True ish - The Gardner 4VT as fitted to the Cowburn and Cowpar motors in the mid 30s used "Pump Stroke" governing, first produced in 1913, as did the Bolinder W series engines. Bolinder also continued to use "Hit and Miss" governing on the E type (1908) NE and BM series favoured by FMC, Thomas Clayton and others.

 

springy

[The History Man]

Fascinating. Is an engine room of benefit?  Rather than stern ?  

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, The History Man said:

Fascinating. Is an engine room of benefit?  Rather than stern ?  

 

Pros:

 

Easier access for maintenance

 

Place to dry wet clothes

 

Usually an old, slow revving engine which sounds much better than a modern plant based engine.

 

Lots of complimentary comments from passers by 

 

Cons

 

Less space effective than an under deck board engine, so less internal space for a given length

 

Some spares can be difficult to obtain for older engines

 

Lots of people asking stupid questions about your engine.

 

 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Pros:

 

Easier access for maintenance

 

Place to dry wet clothes

 

Usually an old, slow revving engine which sounds much better than a modern plant based engine.

 

Lots of complimentary comments from passers by 

 

Cons

 

Less space effective than an under deck board engine, so less internal space for a given length

 

Some spares can be difficult to obtain for older engines

 

Lots of people asking stupid questions about your engine.

 

Don't forget "face full of diesel smoke/fumes, especially in tunnels"... 😉 

Edited July 9 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Cons

 

1) Less space effective than an under deck board engine, so less internal space for a given length

 

2) Some spares can be difficult to obtain for older engines

 

3) Lots of people asking stupid questions about your engine

 

 

4) As it is on public display (it is the law that side hatches are open) you have to spend hours everyday polishing the 'brightwork' and wiping down the engine so it is clean and shiney.

 

5) You get a face full of exhaust gasses & fumes all the time when steering - it begins to affect the brain and you think you have priority for going thru locks, moorings etc.

 

6) You spend a fortune buying cleaning & polishing materials every week

 

7) You need to wear a flat cap and a neckerchief, a waistcoat with pocket watch and moleskin trousers

 

 

 

aistcoat ith a pocket 

Edited July 9 by Alan de Enfield

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't forget "face full of diesel smoke/fumes, especially in tunnels"... 😉 

 

You get that anyway if you have a solid fuel stove!

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

You get that anyway if you have a solid fuel stove!

 

How does a solid fuel stove produce .....................

 

 

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't forget "face full of diesel smoke/fumes, especially in tunnels

 

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

You get that anyway if you have a solid fuel stove!

Presumably burning wood, which at least smells nicer than diesel fumes even if it's gradually killing you with PM2.5 particulates... 😉 

 

(as is the traditional diesel, probably...)

Edited July 9 by IanD

[The History Man]

I'm yet to hear a negative for engine room............😍

 

I like fettling......    And Tweed. More of a gentleman boater

 

This has just gone in anticipation, two more to go.

 

 

[IanD]

Just now, The History Man said:

I'm yet to hear a negative for engine room............😍

 

I like fettling......    And Tweed. More of a gentleman boater

 

This has just gone in anticipation, two more to go.

 

 

 

If you want an engine room (fettle, polish...) and your study that definitely means a 70 footer... 😉 

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How does a solid fuel stove produce .....................

 

 

 

 

OK, what about if you have a Refleks diesel stove or similar?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

OK, what about if you have a Refleks diesel stove or similar?

 

In which case you are correct - but, you specifically stated a solid fuel stove