RCR renewals...

[Tony Brooks]

I think that I am qualified and experienced enough but do not consider my skill level as particularly high compared with some here. To be totally open I did used to run courses for boaters, RCR staff, and even a large hire company as a contractor, not as an employee. I ran many courses inside RCR's headquarters and have witnessed them dealing with customers and directing staff engineers and contractors to the jobs plus the availability of advice to their staff.

 

It has been a number of years since I stopped training so things might have changed but my impression was that they were trying to do a decent job and in most cases succeeding. Any organisation will have jobs that go wrong and its to be expected, its how that is dealt with that matters.As I have not experienced how RCR have dealt with any I can not comment how effective they are in this. What I do know is that technical questions coming direct to me or via the magazine about RCR jobs that have gone wrong are probably less one a year and in more than half the cases the correspondents hid RCR's involvement so I am far from sure they were straight and honest. In one case  the person involved had ignored the engineer's advice and in another they failed to adhere to the engine manufacturer's  instructions (although I felt those instructions were unreasonable).

 

On the basis of this I was happy to take out Retained Membership when we intended to cruise far from home. I will advise my son to take out membership if and when he buys a boat.

 

RCR are not perfect but they seem pretty good to me.

[Hartlebury lad]

Well......that was a hornets nest!

On balance i have made a decision to renew.  I think you can buy some peace of mind. Insurance is a complete waste of money, until you need it.

 

On the subject of supporting local businesses, i have used RCR 3 times in the last 7 years, and each time it was a subbed out local contractor. 

On two of those occasions, i reckon i would not need to have called them out if i knew then what i know now. However, i can't easily repair or replace a starter, gearbox, or injector, and i certainly couldn't rescue my own boat off a weir in the event of an engine and anchor failure. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said:

and anchor failure. 

 

How does an anchor 'fail' ?

[Hartlebury lad]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How does an anchor 'fail' ?

My assumption is based on a possible engine failure on a river, and after deploying a decent anchor with a rope (both fit for purpose) failing to bite on the river bed and not arresting a moving boat. My understanding is it's not unknown.....shit happens.

[frahkn]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How does an anchor 'fail' ?

If you assume that an anchor tossed overboard is going to save your boat - something has failed, either the anchor or the assumption.

Edited January 18, 2021 by frahkn

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Hartlebury lad said:

My assumption is based on a possible engine failure on a river, and after deploying a decent anchor with a rope (both fit for purpose) failing to bite on the river bed and not arresting a moving boat. My understanding is it's not unknown.....shit happens.

That is not an 'anchor failure', its a failure of the skipper to have a suitable anchor (and anchoring system) on board.

 

It really frustrates me the number of boats you see with a 10-15kg Danforth anchor, and when you ask them why "its because it folds flat and its easy to store", O' thats all right then, the fact its not suitable for a 15-20 ton boat on a typical river bottom is not relevant.

3 minutes ago, frahkn said:

If you assume that an anchor tossed overboard is going to save your boat - something has failed, either the anchor or the assumption.

 

Well 'tossing an anchor overboard is going to result in failure.

An anchor needs to be deployed.

[jonathanA]

I understand the insurance aspect of having Rcr cover, I've had the retainer level via my insurer but each year it seemed to go up by 5 or 10 quid so I stopped taking it in 2019.  I had previously considered the silver/gold levels but when I weighed up the cost against the limitations of the cover (read the small print the 'free' replacement parts cover is quite a limited list)  I decided I would put the money to one side instead and would use local contractors if I couldn't sort it myself. 

 

I can't comment on RCR as despite paying for cover for 6 or 7 years I never once rang them.... (bound to have a major problem now....)

 

There is still the option  of paying them to attend which I would use as a last resort.

[Hartlebury lad]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is not an 'anchor failure', its a failure of the skipper to have a suitable anchor (and anchoring system) on board.

 

It really frustrates me the number of boats you see with a 10-15kg Danforth anchor, and when you ask them why "its because it folds flat and its easy to store", O' thats all right then, the fact its not suitable for a 15-20 ton boat on a typical river bottom is not relevant.

 

Well 'tossing an anchor overboard is going to result in failure.

An anchor needs to be deployed.

Alan....

1. At least i said "deployed"

2. You will note, i did say "fit for purpose"

3. I suggested it is not an exact science-  perfect anchor set ups don't exist-  and sometimes "shit happens" 

 

oh, and 

4. with nearly 30,000 posts on here, you will of course be aware the Anchor/Rope blah de blah debates have raged on and on here many times! Worth a separate thread if you want to rekindle....?

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said:

2. You will note, i did say "fit for purpose"

Just one more comment, then I'll 'leave it'

 

If it didn't 'work' then "it wasn't fit for purpose".

It's like complaining that a 13mm spanner has failed to undo a 12mm nut and has 'just slipped & rounded the corners' - it is 'fit' for the pupose for its intended use (13mm nut), but not not 'fit for purpose' on a 12mm nut.

 

I carry 3 different types of anchor on my boat to ensure I have one 'fit for pupose' and to suit the conditions.

[frangar]

Well Im amazed how many on here fall for the RCR marketing machine.......personally Im with @Tracy D'arth...Ive seen first hand how incompetent they are!....oh and don't fall for the towing service either...you could bowhaul a boat for longer than they offer to tow! 

Edited January 18, 2021 by frangar

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Waffle and rubbish.  There are many cases of deliberate misleading boaters and obtaining money by continually selling engines that  were unusable, declaring gearboxes are faulty when they are not.  Then the displaced parts have been sold to the next mug. I have personally inspected some of these supposedly refurbished painted junk parts.

I really do not care.

I notice that you failed to address the other substantive points I made.

 

I also notice that you are extending your libel to RCR customers who, almost by the very fact of being such, are 'mugs'. Has anyone had the experience of substandard parts, taken it up with RCR, failed to have the problem rectified and subsequently successfully taken them to court?

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, Hartlebury lad said:

My assumption is based on a possible engine failure on a river, and after deploying a decent anchor with a rope (both fit for purpose) failing to bite on the river bed and not arresting a moving boat. My understanding is it's not unknown.....shit happens.

They could stretch a steel cable or chain on the river bed about 100 yds in front across weirs so that folks in trouble anchors flukes would grab the cable-chain and all would be serene

Edited January 18, 2021 by bizzard

[Arthur Marshall]

22 minutes ago, frangar said:

Well Im amazed how many on here fall for the RCR marketing machine.......personally Im with @Tracy D'arth...Ive seen first hand how incompetent they are!....oh and don't fall for the towing service either...you could bowhaul a boat for longer than they offer to tow! 

And I've had first hand experience of three excellent engineers, one who tried and failed and one useless one. I've also had £2000 towards gearbox repairs (major rebuilds), and when I rang for a tow they advised me to get home if I could as the money would be more useful paying for the repair! Plus a free starter replacement.

And I know bugger all about engines, I'm 71 with a bad back so I can't do even what I could ten years ago. I'm sticking with RCR...

[Tracy D'arth]

24 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I notice that you failed to address the other substantive points I made.

 

I also notice that you are extending your libel to RCR customers who, almost by the very fact of being such, are 'mugs'. Has anyone had the experience of substandard parts, taken it up with RCR, failed to have the problem rectified and subsequently successfully taken them to court?

That would be telling.  Would you call having 3 unsatisfactory engines fitted, then being told its the gearbox that is preventing it starting, threatening legal action until a refund was finally made enabling the owner to buy a new Canaline engine to use the existing ""defective"" gearbox which was a complete fix, to be a satisfactory way to do business?

[Opener]

6 hours ago, rgreg said:

I recently had a failed Morse control unit replaced under their replacement parts cover: absolutely first class service. I have been a member for many years and will continue to be. 

Cable snapped entering a lock near Greenberfield. 6.00pm last Good Friday.  "Sorry, I'm in Manchester - be with you asap." 3/4 of an hour. Sorted and left.

[MaryP]

I renewed as I have a 30+ year old boat with it's original engine, I cruise all year round when allowed, and they have got me out of many spots in the past! I think they're worth it.

[Richard10002]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your first paragraph is correct, also the premiums and the insurer's profit would be excessive on the risks insured and an unnecessary drain on the exchequer.

 

I do look at the risk of breakdown as being slim as I maintain my boats myself to a high standard. Being capable of tending my own mechanics, electrics, gas and plumbing I have an aversion to employing another of dubious or unknown ability.

 

I prefer to be able to cover all possible breakdown costs  from my own resources.  I tend not to have any breakdowns, certainly none that cost any real sums in any case.

 

Many of the experiences of others of my acquaintance when relying on RCR encourage me to continue to despise the often underhand methods of business and unskilled staff which they employ. 

It isn’t all about you who knows it all is it.

 

In your first post you suggested calling out a local fitter and avoid......... etc.

 

If I were to call out a local fitter, they would be as unknown as anyone who came and, if it were the middle of the afternoon on a Saturday, they probably wouldn’t come. On other days, they wouldn’t come if they were busy.

 

Its all right for people like you, but most people aren’t.

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Waffle and rubbish. 
 

 

wouldn’t you consider that an insult?

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I really do not care.

That is well and truly evident from much of your comment here.

 

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just one more comment, then I'll 'leave it'

 

If it didn't 'work' then "it wasn't fit for purpose".

It's like complaining that a 13mm spanner has failed to undo a 12mm nut and has 'just slipped & rounded the corners' - it is 'fit' for the pupose for its intended use (13mm nut), but not not 'fit for purpose' on a 12mm nut.

 

I carry 3 different types of anchor on my boat to ensure I have one 'fit for pupose' and to suit the conditions.

The way you describe it, anytime an anchor doesn’t set first time, or drags, it wasn’t fit for purpose.

 

These things happen and are not always, (maybe not usually), the fault of the anchor.

 

Either you didn’t mean it how it came across, or you live in a different world to many.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

These things happen and are not always, (maybe not usually), the fault of the anchor.

Exactly, the vast majority times it is not the 'fault' of the anchor but the selection of an unsuitable anchor, and chain, and or / deployment of the anchor.

 

I agree that whilst 100% 1st time setting is unlikely, it is something that should be aimed for by canal boats using Rivers - when the engine stops and you are drifting over the weir you don't have time to practice using the anchor, or hoping that the toothpick will be sufficient to stop you. 

In those occasions your anchor is your emergency brake and it needs to (ideally) work 1st time every time so you need to use the best equipment to maximise the chance of that happening, not choosing an anchor because it was cheap, or, fits into your locker, or looks nice.

 

 

 

No doubt there will shortly be a comment that 'anchoring at sea' is very different to anchoring on a River - and - yes I agree, it is.

 

Anchoring at sea is a normal practice undertaken most nights, it is planned and considered and a suitable spot chosen, the anchor is carefully, and correctly deployed, and the boat reversed to help the anchor set, if the anchor 'drags' you simply pull it back in, motor back to your chosen spot and repeat the process until the anchor sets properly.

 

Deploying an anchor on a river will generally be during a 'brown trouser' moment, the engine has stopped, gearbox not working (or whatever). You now need an emergency brake (to stop you going over a weir ?) and the anchor needs to work and set properly and be able to hold the boat to an emergency stop instantly, FIRST TIME, EVERYTIME, as there is unlikely to be time to pull it back in and re-set again.

 

So, yes anchoring on a River is different and actually is much more demanding than anchoring at sea.

 

There are any number of articles about anchoring 'sea-boats' but (seemingly) non about emergency anchoring of River boats, so we can only try and extrapolate the knowledge of 250,000+  'coastal boaters' to the 80,000 inland waterways boaters.

 

 

 

Getting the correct scope is paramount to the anchor setting and holding

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Grassman]

 I've only used RCR once (in 2019) when I had an alternator problem at Hest Bank on the Lancaster Canal. Their engineer drove 72 miles from Stockport and was with me within a couple of hours of me calling them and sorted the problem.  I thought that was excellent service.