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definitive network map


Nelly Mac

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Hi all  - i'm conscious of the CRT website map (and the various CRT, EA and River authority ownership), and i've seen various downloads and magazine pull-outs - but can the group recommend a definitive map of the NB cruising network ? - what i'm hoping to see is one that shows (or even better lets you filter out online) the differences and limitations of navigable width & length ?

thanks guys 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/canal-and-river-network 

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I don't think any such thing exists. There are good full network maps from Imray and Nicholsons (I think) but you will have to do your own research and mark the restrictions yourself. I think the above maps do separate wide and narrow canals but that's about it.

 

Its not really possible to do a definitive map that would suit everybody which is why you will need to do your own.

Some locks are 57 foot but you could get a 60 through diagonal. In some you could maybe get a 62foot through but it would be difficult, have some risks and might depend upon exact boat shape. Most wide canals are 14foot but due to age and poor maintenance 13 is maybe the safe maximum on many. A couple have been reduced to 10 or 12 foot due to a single local restriction but the remainder might still be 14 foot etc etc.

Your own boating skills and attitude to risk and adventure are a factor.

 

...............Dave

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1 hour ago, Nelly Mac said:

Hi all  - i'm conscious of the CRT website map (and the various CRT, EA and River authority ownership), and i've seen various downloads and magazine pull-outs - but can the group recommend a definitive map of the NB cruising network ? - what i'm hoping to see is one that shows (or even better lets you filter out online) the differences and limitations of navigable width & length ?

thanks guys 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/canal-and-river-network 

I think you'll find this ticks most of your boxes:

 

https://collins.co.uk/products/9780008363802

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14 hours ago, Nelly Mac said:

Hi all  - i'm conscious of the CRT website map (and the various CRT, EA and River authority ownership), and i've seen various downloads and magazine pull-outs - but can the group recommend a definitive map of the NB cruising network ? - what i'm hoping to see is one that shows (or even better lets you filter out online) the differences and limitations of navigable width & length ?

thanks guys 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/canal-and-river-network 

The old Stanford Maps had three codes - narrow (red), wide (blue), and wide with short locks (green). They haven't been published for years but can be found second hand

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Stanfords-Inland-Cruising-Map-England-Larger/9531705082/bd

 

These are old enough that some canals and rivers are not marked as they had not been restored. Also be aware that there are many nuances to these basic definitions, Narrow locks don't vary much but wide locks do, and length variations of short wide locks are a matter of much debate when it comes to "go anywhere" vessels.   

Edited by magpie patrick
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24 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Narrow locks don't vary much

Apart from the very narrow ones like Stret and Hurleston, both now rebuilt to full width, or the ones which those of us with full length narrow boats have to lift bow and stern fenders to get through.?

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14 hours ago, dmr said:

I don't think any such thing exists. There are good full network maps from Imray and Nicholsons (I think) but you will have to do your own research and mark the restrictions yourself. I think the above maps do separate wide and narrow canals but that's about it.

 

Its not really possible to do a definitive map that would suit everybody which is why you will need to do your own.

Some locks are 57 foot but you could get a 60 through diagonal. In some you could maybe get a 62foot through but it would be difficult, have some risks and might depend upon exact boat shape. Most wide canals are 14foot but due to age and poor maintenance 13 is maybe the safe maximum on many. A couple have been reduced to 10 or 12 foot due to a single local restriction but the remainder might still be 14 foot etc etc.

Your own boating skills and attitude to risk and adventure are a factor.

 

...............Dave

Very true, non are anywhere near correct you have to ask for personal experience from people who have done certain pinch spots to find the truth.

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5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Apart from the very narrow ones like Stret and Hurleston, both now rebuilt to full width, or the ones which those of us with full length narrow boats have to lift bow and stern fenders to get through.?

Indeed, but one thing I keep trying to tell people (no one listens) is that some locks are narrow and some are more narrow than others and were built that way! The one I know of definitively, the Somerset Coal Canal, was designed for boats 6 foot 9 inches wide, the tolerances meant that ordinary narrow boats would fit. They were build for boats 69 foot long but same thing applied. Bear in mind that if your "full length narrowboat" is a GU town class, it is too long to share  the K&A locks. 

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56 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Very true, non are anywhere near correct you have to ask for personal experience from people who have done certain pinch spots to find the truth.

Yes, trying to compile a definitive list would probably represent a significant risk to one's sanity too...

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51 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

...Bear in mind that if your "full length narrowboat" is a GU town class, it is too long to share  the K&A locks. 

P7142903s.jpg.743564a2fd08b7bbeb8de03e25d2ec5d.jpg

 

Yes, it's a three dimensional problem. Going up, (Bath Locks), if you can get in, then you can get out. Going down, you don't neet the space to clear the cill, but if the accompanying boat is too long, there's no way to open the bottom gates, and once all the fenders are up there is no more manoeuverability so you have to fill the lock again and go down separately. On any one lock, you don't know until you try, and there isn't a list ...

2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Yes, trying to compile a definitive list would probably represent a significant risk to one's sanity too...

?

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1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

Indeed, but one thing I keep trying to tell people (no one listens) is that some locks are narrow and some are more narrow than others and were built that way! The one I know of definitively, the Somerset Coal Canal, was designed for boats 6 foot 9 inches wide, the tolerances meant that ordinary narrow boats would fit. They were build for boats 69 foot long but same thing applied. Bear in mind that if your "full length narrowboat" is a GU town class, it is too long to share  the K&A locks. 

 

You can share the locks as long as the other boat is not over 70'

 

 

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and then there are all the wide locks where the gates usually don't fully open meaning that  the effective width is 12 or 13 feet rather than 14,

This is a problem for wider wide boats but also a problem if two longer narrowboats are sharing.

 

..............Dave

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The best list of pinch points and dimensions I've ever seen was put together by British Waterways c.2000 with a lot of input from HNBOC. Unfortunately BW/CRT have a habit of deciding "we must do something about dimensions!" every three years, at which point they withdraw the previous list, start a new project to compile information, and... that's it. I lose track of the number of times it's happened.

 

The Waterways World Annual map differentiates between broad and narrow waterways, plus a special category for navigations with shorter locks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 17/01/2021 at 20:27, Up-Side-Down said:

I think you'll find this ticks most of your boxes:

 

https://collins.co.uk/products/9780008363802

This map is great. I've had it on my wall for several years now. We also have one on the boat, but had to cut it down to a more practical size. It's possible with a bit of snipping to get it down to A2, whilst still having the enlargement sections not obscuring anything. One thing that makes this map particularly useful is the inclusion of major roads.

 

Also, it is possible with a bit of script modification to use the very nice map that the IWA publish via their website as a full-screen webpage with scroll-wheel zooming. Unfortunately, it is not possible to attach the .html .css and .js files here due to file-type restrictions. I've attached some screenshots, which ironically are about 10x bigger than the html/javascript.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that it also supports hovering over the waterways to show their name. The map display is just using a Javascript library called Leaflet.

screenshot1.png

screenshot3.png

Edited by Craig Shelley
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Hi,

 

The link below is to a ZIP containing the HTML document and Javascript files. I was a little reluctant to share this via google drive as I cannot guarantee how long the link will remain live. Also I'm not too sure about the licencing terms. I'm aware that the Leaflet library is distributed under a BSD permissive licence.

Since this off-line page loads its data from the feeds published by IWA, if ever those feeds change it will stop working.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KaBVmV8ua3Le-KHoSwlUvdTBAtwso7hQ

 

This is exactly the same map as is published on IWA, but with some personalisation of the style settings, different line colours etc. in map-v2.js

 

I've only ever tested this on a PC using Firefox. Just make sure the files "IWA Map.html" "map-vendor.js" "map-v2.js" and "leaflet-2.css" are in the same directory on your computer, and open "IWA Map.html" in your web browser.

 

I suppose theoretically, I could embed the CSS, and Javascript within the HTML document to possibly make it easier to use.

 

It might work on a smartphone - I've not tested that though.

 

Regards,

Craig

 

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