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Now... I know that you get what you pay for in life; and that ‘value’ and ‘worth’ are subjective ...

however looking to learn from your experience; good experiences 😏👍

 

if I wanted a modern fully equipped new build 57ish live aboard (or at least CCing) NB, can I achieve that up to £100k with real craftsmanship .... and if so who are you recommending 

thanks 

Nelly Mac 

Edited by Nelly Mac
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If you mean real craftmanship using 'real' wood and good quality materials, I very much doubt you'd achieve your budget.

 

Everyone has a different idea of craftsmanship - it could be 'totally hand built cabinets from real wood, made to measure' or it could be 'MFI units, hand modified and cut down to suit your boat'

 

The more you vary from 'the standard' that a boat builder offers the more it will cost.

 

The manufacturers "extras" price list for items fitted during the build on one of my boats totals over £100,000 (its not a NB & I have very few of the optional extras)

 

Things like a 'saloon door curtain' is over £300, cushions for the stern £1,300 etc etc.

 

I strongly suggest that you consider electric propulsion (it will cost possibly £10,000 more due to the batteries, generator, and solar panel costs) but from 2025 all boats built in the UK must be capable of being conveted to 'zero emission' propulsion and by 2035 NO boats are allowed to be built unless they have zero emission' propulsion and by 2050 NO boats will be allowed on UK water (Inland and coastal) unless they are zero-emmission propulsion.

This means that diesel powered boats being built in the next few years will likely depreciate very quickly as people are unlikely to buy a non-zero emmission propulsion boat as the dealine gets closer.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Not too sure about Alans' opinions on electric and diesel. Personally I would stick with diesel. Electric is expensive right now and  it could well get cheaper. Any installation you put in now could be getting a bit past it in 20 - 30 years. Charging points are few and far between and lastly diesel will heat your water, move your boat and charge your batteries. Its a judgement call really, soon but not yet I would say. I would also agree with Tony's comments above and just add that craftsmanship, 'all mod cons' and a big price tag don't necessarily add up to useability.

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Welcome to the forum, Nelly. You will get numerous answers, many of which will be at variance with each other, as you can already see.

   My two penn'orth would be to look at second-hand boats. Your budget should get you a truly excellent craft, it's just a question of looking at lots of them and finding one which nearly matches your ideas about interior layout and so on.

You may already be aware of it, but do have a look on Apollo Duck Narrowboats and see just how much boat £100,000 can buy. Even better, see how much £90,000 can buy, leaving you a substantial sum for any alterations and additions you want to make.

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5 hours ago, Nelly Mac said:

Now... I know that you get what you pay for in life; and that ‘value’ and ‘worth’ are subjective ...

however looking to learn from your experience; good experiences 😏👍

 

if I wanted a modern fully equipped new build 57ish live aboard (or at least CCing) NB, can I achieve that up to £100k with real craftsmanship .... and if so who are you recommending 

thanks 

Nelly Mac 

You might struggle new but its possible used.

 

Eleven years ago we bought a used boat with a high quality hand built custom made interior for three quarters of your budget.

 

The shell was a fairly run of the mill Colecraft though. It would have cost more more if built on a shell from a more 'prestige' shell builder.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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5 hours ago, Nelly Mac said:

Now... I know that you get what you pay for in life; and that ‘value’ and ‘worth’ are subjective ...

however looking to learn from your experience; good experiences 😏👍

 

if I wanted a modern fully equipped new build 57ish live aboard (or at least CCing) NB, can I achieve that up to £100k with real craftsmanship .... and if so who are you recommending 

thanks 

Nelly Mac 

100k is a mass produced Ford mondeo type boat but will last as long as a big name. 50/60k will buy you a very nice sub 15 year old boat with all mod cons and would make far more sense.

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2 hours ago, Bee said:

Not too sure about Alans' opinions on electric and diesel. Personally I would stick with diesel. Electric is expensive right now and  it could well get cheaper. Any installation you put in now could be getting a bit past it in 20 - 30 years. Charging points are few and far between and lastly diesel will heat your water, move your boat and charge your batteries. Its a judgement call really, soon but not yet I would say. I would also agree with Tony's comments above and just add that craftsmanship, 'all mod cons' and a big price tag don't necessarily add up to useability.

I am with Alan its always best to future proof your purchase especially as it's such a large sum of money. As for his opinion it's fact things have been put in place. Now in nine years new  ICE cars will have to be zero emissions, I suspect that in four years time car makers will be phasing them out anyway, so given the drop already in diesel cars sales diesel as a fuel will be dropping rapidly! Do you buy the past or the future?

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29 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I am with Alan its always best to future proof your purchase especially as it's such a large sum of money. As for his opinion it's fact things have been put in place. Now in nine years new  ICE cars will have to be zero emissions, I suspect that in four years time car makers will be phasing them out anyway, so given the drop already in diesel cars sales diesel as a fuel will be dropping rapidly! Do you buy the past or the future?

The slight problem is that a brand new boat with a decent well specified electric propulsion system is going to be well beyond the OP's budget of £100k.

 

And I would reckon a used one within budget would be rarer than a very very rare thing.

 

So in the context of the original question the suggestion to 'go electric' is pretty irrelevant.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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3 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The slight problem is that a brand new boat with a decent well specified electric propulsion system is going to be well beyond the OP's budget of £100k.

 

And I would reckon a used one within budget would be rarer than a very very rare thing.

 

So in the context of the original question the suggestion to 'go electric' is pretty irrelevant.

 

 

It is a problem unless they go the sail away route?

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6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The slight problem is that a brand new boat with a decent well specified electric propulsion system is going to be well beyond the OP's budget of £100k.

As I said - it would be, but IF an electrical system costs £20,000, they will be saving £10,000 on the engine not being fitted so the 'add-on' is £10k.

 

If they intended to sell the boat (in say) 10 years time I bet a boat with an ICE would be more than £10k cheaper than an BEB (Battery Electric Boat)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

It is a problem unless they go the sail away route?

He stated he wanted 'real craftsmanship'.

 

Assuming he has to pay someone to acheive the finished product then he's back where he started, well over budget I reckon.

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As I said - it would be, but IF an electrical system costs £20,000, they will be saving £10,000 on the engine not being fitted so the 'add-on' is £10k.

 

If they intended to sell the boat (in say) 10 years time I bet a boat with an ICE would be more than £10k cheaper than an BEB (Battery Electric Boat)

I agree there will be a better chance of selling an electric propulsion boat then for a better price than an ICE propulsion boat.

 

But if its unaffordable now? Its matterless.

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9 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

He stated he wanted 'real craftsmanship'.

 

Assuming he has to pay someone to acheive the finished product then he's back where he started, well over budget I reckon.

I agree there will be a better chance of selling an electric propulsion boat then for a better price than an ICE propulsion boat.

 

But if its unaffordable now? Its matterless.

He can't do what he wants for 100k anyway so maybe a sailaway is his best option in fact only option new. However as you said secondhand it's doable as you said but maybe it's not what they want?

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One problem is the difficulty of finding a craftsman who also understands about boats. I once saw a new sailaway fitout from a retired carpenter which looked stunningly beautiful throughout; he hadn't understood the necessity of suitable battening to keep the woodwork away from the cabin sides, so in the 2 years that the work had taken him the wood was already rotting from behind. Luckily our surveyor spotted the problem and we walked away. Two years later I spotted the same boat in another boatyard being totally stripped out back to sailaway condition.

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I strongly suggest that you consider electric propulsion (it will cost possibly £10,000 more due to the batteries, generator, and solar panel costs) but from 2025 all boats built in the UK must be capable of being conveted to 'zero emission' propulsion and by 2035 NO boats are allowed to be built unless they have zero emission' propulsion and by 2050 NO boats will be allowed on UK water (Inland and coastal) unless they are zero-emmission propulsion.

This means that diesel powered boats being built in the next few years will likely depreciate very quickly as people are unlikely to buy a non-zero emmission propulsion boat as the dealine gets closer.

Probably an under estimate. As Kermit once said 'its not easy being green'.

 

I don't know costings for a narrowboat but we are in the process of having a 60 X 10 widebeam built. We wanted to go electric and looked for several months into the various options both parallel and serial. A Beta Hybrid system would have cost us £35000 more than the conventional equivalent. That will buy us a lot of diesel between now and at 74, our eventual demise.

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Forget electric drives and future proofing, get a boat that's right for now, it can always be converted to something else in the future (and most likely by somebody else).

Unless you have crystal balls "future proofing" is an impossible myth, I think the concept was invented by marketing men to sell very expensive PC's to people who like to call themselves "early adopters" etc.

The network of charging points on the canal is currently not even at the planning stage so how can you design a boat to suit it?  And by the time 2030 or 2050 or whenever arrives the technology will be very different and a lot cheaper than what we have now. Most people sell their boat on within 5 or 10 years, a quirky electric boat will likely still be worth much less than a diesel at this stage.

 

And if you aspire to a high quality craftsman fitout then do purchase a suitably attractive and upmarket shell, otherwise you will, as they say, just be polishing a turd.

 

..............Dave

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The latest Oakcraft boat finished near us went out for about £200k. Mel Davies shell and Oakcraft fitout. He is currently booked until 2023.

£100k on a budget shell might get you a half decent standard fitout with frills.

£100k on a decent shell will get you a standard fitout.

There may be new companies offer you more, but what are you missing out on or compromising to breach this financial challenge.

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6 minutes ago, dmr said:

Forget electric drives and future proofing, get a boat that's right for now, it can always be converted to something else in the future (and most likely by somebody else).

Unless you have crystal balls "future proofing" is an impossible myth, I think the concept was invented by marketing men to sell very expensive PC's to people who like to call themselves "early adopters" etc.

The network of charging points on the canal is currently not even at the planning stage so how can you design a boat to suit it?  And by the time 2030 or 2050 or whenever arrives the technology will be very different and a lot cheaper than what we have now. Most people sell their boat on within 5 or 10 years, a quirky electric boat will likely still be worth much less than a diesel at this stage.

 

And if you aspire to a high quality craftsman fitout then do purchase a suitably attractive and upmarket shell, otherwise you will, as they say, just be polishing a turd.

 

..............Dave

Only your thoughts, seems like boat builders know different, otherwise why would Finesse and others be going in that direction? It's not for fun that's for sure 

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44 minutes ago, pearley said:

Probably an under estimate. As Kermit once said 'its not easy being green'.

 

I don't know costings for a narrowboat but we are in the process of having a 60 X 10 widebeam built. We wanted to go electric and looked for several months into the various options both parallel and serial. A Beta Hybrid system would have cost us £35000 more than the conventional equivalent. That will buy us a lot of diesel between now and at 74, our eventual demise.

The price differential is a bit like the differance between an ICE vehicle and an electric one.............

 

 

............ but on steroids.

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39 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Only your thoughts, seems like boat builders know different, otherwise why would Finesse and others be going in that direction? It's not for fun that's for sure 

Yes, only my thoughts and observations. Yes, some electric boats are getting built and sold but for the majority of owners I just don't see how they can work, and hybrids are really just diesels with a complicated drive train (though will allow very short distance electric cruising).

Boat builders will make anything if they have a customer, look at Whitfield, but it doesn't make it a good idea. Lots of gas free boats get built and sold. The PC makers sold a lot of "future proofed" computers with Firewire interfaces when USB was he real future  😀 

 

Electric will happen, and when the time is right I will go electric (I will likely be 80 or 90 😀).

There was a very expensive electric boat on the K&A 10+ years ago (with a little generator). It sold for much much less than it cost to build and the new owner did a quick and dirty conversion to diesel.

 

.............Dave

 

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Yes, only my thoughts and observations. Yes, some electric boats are getting built and sold but for the majority of owners I just don't see how they can work, and hybrids are really just diesels with a complicated drive train (though will allow very short distance electric cruising).

Boat builders will make anything if they have a customer, look at Whitfield, but it doesn't make it a good idea. Lots of gas free boats get built and sold. The PC makers sold a lot of "future proofed" computers with Firewire interfaces when USB was he real future  😀 

 

Electric will happen, and when the time is right I will go electric (I will likely be 80 or 90 😀).

There was a very expensive electric boat on the K&A 10+ years ago (with a little generator). It sold for much much less than it cost to build and the new owner did a quick and dirty conversion to diesel.

 

.............Dave

 

And still Finesses order book is for serial hybrids and not diesels clearly some customers know what is happening 

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12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

And still Finesses order book is for serial hybrids and not diesels clearly some customers know what is happening 

That will be the ones with deep pockets, not the likes of me or the OP unless he can expand his bidget considerably above £100k.

 

All this banging on about going electric in a new build is completely irrelevant to his query unless he can.

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