Alde 2928 no spark or light

[ASB1960]

When my oh last left the boat she forgot to turn the boiler off. She turned off the electric and the gas.

 

Now I cannot relight it.

 

When I turn the control knob to the ignition position there is no flashing light.

 

When I hold it down to light there is no spark (or commensurate clicking).

 

The control panel is different to that I can find in the manual I tracked down. There is simply a blank panel above the ignite/temp knob.

 

I cannot find a fuse to check or any sort of rest.

 

It appears to have power, the pump works when thermostat is turned on.

 

Any suggestions as to what I might look for, befoe I try find an engineer ?.

[Tony Brooks]

If there is a fuse it will be external to the boiler but as the pump works its not the supply.

 

As long as the operating shaft is closing the microswitch my guess is its the igniter. Small rectangular box feeding the spark lead. make sure it has 12V going to it and if so its faulty. When you move the knob to close the microswitch the igniter will try to operate unless there is a flame in the spark path and if there is it turns itself off.

[Tracy D'arth]

It will have nothing to do with turning the boiler off before the gas or power.  Spark box or could the electrode be wet and hence shorted due to the weather?

[ASB1960]

Thank you.

 

It is entirely possible the electrode is damp. It was the lack of the orange flashing light that made me wonder if there is a control box that has failed 

[Tony Brooks]

I think it would be possible to undo the three screws that hold the  mica window onto the case and get a small blow touch in to dry out the electrode insulation. Maybe even a hair dryer could be directed into the burner area but it would take longer.

 

Edited to add. I think that if you disconnected the igniter wire from the igniter box it should start clicking if its a short for any reason the igniter or cable. Not tried it myself so happy to be corrected if wrong.

 

PS make sure its turned off before disconnecting and keep fingers clear.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[frangar]

I had an igniter unit that either developed a dry joint or the potted board cracked as it only worked if you moved the HT cable connection a fraction. The cable and its terminal were fine. I can vouch for the fact it’s a fair jolt when you become part of the circuit! 
 

You should see 12v at the input to the igniter when the control knob is moved. The neon is fed from the HT side. 

[Dave Payne]

As tony say, get the glass panel open, shine a torch in and check all looks ok.

 

I had to blow mine out with air to clear some crap that had fallen down and landed on the ignitor part.

 

 

[dmr]

If its like my slightly older one then you have to turn the knob to the ignition position for it to work. This operates a little microswitch from a cam on the shaft, If the switch has failed, or more likely if there is any wear in the mechanism then it won't work. Spare switches are available but costly and maybe won't fix it if its due to wear. Get inside it and have a look.

I fitted a separate "ignition" push button switch to fix mine. I suspect the elfin safety people on here will have a fit but it works very well.

 

..............Dave

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

If its like my slightly older one then you have to turn the knob to the ignition position for it to work. This operates a little microswitch from a cam on the shaft, If the switch has failed, or more likely if there is any wear in the mechanism then it won't work. Spare switches are available but costly and maybe won't fix it if its due to wear. Get inside it and have a look.

I fitted a separate "ignition" push button switch to fix mine. I suspect the elfin safety people on here will have a fit but it works very well.

 

..............Dave

I have the exact same solution on mine.  It's been through at least one BSS with the switch fitted.

[Tony Brooks]

47 minutes ago, dmr said:

If its like my slightly older one then you have to turn the knob to the ignition position for it to work. This operates a little microswitch from a cam on the shaft, If the switch has failed, or more likely if there is any wear in the mechanism then it won't work. Spare switches are available but costly and maybe won't fix it if its due to wear. Get inside it and have a look.

I fitted a separate "ignition" push button switch to fix mine. I suspect the elfin safety people on here will have a fit but it works very well.

 

..............Dave

That's what I would have done if mine failed.

[Slim]

Not Aldi or even boat but Here at home I have a gas double oven, Every so often the igniter in the small oven 'fails'. (both large and small ovens are served by same spark generator so know it's not generator). A gentle rub with a finger is all that's needed. No obvious dirt, build up of deposits. It's worth a try if accessible.

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Slim said:

Not Aldi or even boat but Here at home I have a gas double oven, Every so often the igniter in the small oven 'fails'. (both large and small ovens are served by same spark generator so know it's not generator). A gentle rub with a finger is all that's needed. No obvious dirt, build up of deposits. It's worth a try if accessible.

You won't get your finger on the spark gap unless you take the whole burner assembly out of the boiler. There is only about 5/8" hole. You could use a cotton bud though.

[ASB1960]

Thanks all. Lots of things to try on Thursday when I am back. First thing will be to see where electric is getting to.

 

I am just oraying the transformer hasn't  failed since they seem unobtainable ?

[dmr]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

I have the exact same solution on mine.  It's been through at least one BSS with the switch fitted.

I thought about it quite hard and can see no safety implications. Operationally it has advantages. I suspect the original scheme was out of a desire to minimise the number of controls. I don't think any of the BSS men have even noticed.

 

...............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

I thought about it quite hard and can see no safety implications. Operationally it has advantages. I suspect the original scheme was out of a desire to minimise the number of controls. I don't think any of the BSS men have even noticed.

 

...............Dave

Even if they did its no concern of theirs providing the extra wiring is BSS compliant. I know some might like to take a different view. I did an even more drastic rewire so   the pump was controlled by either a tank stat or the room stat plus adding a LED warning light to show when it was turned on. It should have worked but I could not work the tank stat securing stat around the calorifier so the stat never made really good contact with the copper. That was after I fitted extra solar and thought I may not need to run the engine on bright days in summer.

[frangar]

26 minutes ago, ASB1960 said:

Thanks all. Lots of things to try on Thursday when I am back. First thing will be to see where electric is getting to.

 

I am just oraying the transformer hasn't  failed since they seem unobtainable ?

Try http://grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk

He has a good stock of spares as well as servicing the burner units. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by frangar

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, dmr said:

If its like my slightly older one then you have to turn the knob to the ignition position for it to work. This operates a little microswitch from a cam on the shaft, If the switch has failed, or more likely if there is any wear in the mechanism then it won't work. Spare switches are available but costly and maybe won't fix it if its due to wear. Get inside it and have a look.

I fitted a separate "ignition" push button switch to fix mine. I suspect the elfin safety people on here will have a fit but it works very well.

 

..............Dave

The microswitch position is adjustable. Yours may have moved out of position or worn a bit so that the cam no longer switches the transformer on in the ignition position. I had to adjust mine a couple of times to get it operating reliably.

2 hours ago, ASB1960 said:

 

I am just oraying the transformer hasn't  failed since they seem unobtainable

It's just a generic 12V ignition transformer. I'm sure you could find a substitute if the exact same model is no longer available.

Edited January 15, 2021 by David Mack

[Opener]

What dmr and others have said.  I bought a second hand/ripped out unit years ago for the sake of the spares. It had been modified with a manual switch to replace the microswitch.  I did the same with mine.

Have a fumble just under the black control knob - might just be the microswitch there out of position.  But it is operated by a fragile plastic 'finger' which can break off.

I've had to replace my self installed master switch a couple of times - not confident about the contacts.

BUT, I'm now on my third or fourth ignition box. I'm a fair weather boater and, left alone for too long, the ignition box seems to take offence and go on strike (or OFF strike).  It's a comparatively expensive item but I now regard it as a disposable ?.

[Bod]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

Try http://grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk

He has a good stock of spares as well as servicing the burner units. 

I only get 404 not found, when trying that link.

 

Bod.

[dmr]

28 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The microswitch position is adjustable. Yours may have moved out of position or worn a bit so that the cam no longer switches the transformer on in the ignition position. I had to adjust mine a couple of times to get it operating reliably.

It's just a generic 12V ignition transformer. I'm sure you could find a substitute if the exact same model is no longer available.

Its a while ago now, but I think I was too mean to buy the proper job so got a standard "lever" microswitch and tried to modify it. Whilst doing this (and struggling) and thinking about it I decided that a separate push button switch would be a better way of doing it.

 

..............Dave

 

 

[frangar]

12 minutes ago, Bod said:

I only get 404 not found, when trying that link.

 

Bod.

You aren’t wrong! 
 

try this

 

http://www.grahamcutmoreengineering.co.uk

[Bod]

Thanks, that works for me. 
 

Bod