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A little more water than usual


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4 hours ago, colmac said:

Ditto the Severn, live in Stourport , just been for a walk and the river is well up.

400 cumecs in Shrewsbury earlier today, I think the largest in living memory? 

Meanwhile, the land in the Fens is so waterlogged that all the rain is running straight off into the watercourses.

 

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11 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

400 cumecs in Shrewsbury earlier today, I think the largest in living memory? 

Meanwhile, the land in the Fens is so waterlogged that all the rain is running straight off into the watercourses.

 

In this part of the Fens it rained all day yesterday, but no more is forecast at the moment. The fields look soggy but the Old River Nene is at its normal level. Not that I've seen a boat moving on it since the week before Christmas.

Edited by Athy
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1 hour ago, Athy said:

In this part of the Fens it rained all day yesterday, but no more is forecast at the moment. The fields look soggy but the Old River Nene is at its normal level. Not that I've seen a boat moving on it since the week before Christmas.

That's good to hear, though people at Foxes seem to be getting a bit nervous  on Facebook.

 

The flow has risen rather sharply on the Bedford Ouse - here's the gauge at Offord (which seems to have hit its maximum reading of 138.537 (why that number) cumecs over Christmas.

https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Detail/13346/8754/2020-12-15/2021-01-15

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Does anyone know of anyone that has been "apprehended" by the police for travelling to their boat to check the mooring lines during flooding?

 

I've had an email from the EA to say I'm not allowed to visit my boat, and then a flood warning from the EA that says to check my mooring lines 🥴

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9 minutes ago, nickhindle said:

Does anyone know of anyone that has been "apprehended" by the police for travelling to their boat to check the mooring lines during flooding?

 

I've had an email from the EA to say I'm not allowed to visit my boat, and then a flood warning from the EA that says to check my mooring lines 🥴

I'd use the second to justify any queries if challenged

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12 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

That's good to hear, though people at Foxes seem to be getting a bit nervous  on Facebook.

 

 

They're at a lower level than we are. We're above Marmont Priory lock one way, and the other way there are sluices which empty into the main drain, so if the river ever flooded here, March and Peterborough would probably be under water. You'd be O.K. in Ely of course, as you could retreat up that reassuringly high hill

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9 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I'd use the second to justify any queries if challenged

Its worth a try, but the counter argument could be that the 'no travel' is a government instruction, and the 'check your lines' is an EA suggestion.

 

The BMF have written to the Government and received the following reply (which seems to suggest that using your boat is OK is it is a yacht)

 

Government guidance on boat maintenance during lockdown

Maintaining second homes, caravans, boats and other assets is not generally a reasonable excuse for leaving home. However, people may leave home to secure their second home, caravan or boat in order to avoid it posing a risk of harm/injury to themselves or others.

This guidance is taken directly from the gov.uk site found here

Latest Government advice for recreational boating

British Marine have had it confirmed by the UK Government that boating is a form of exercise and therefore is an accepted excuse to leave home in England. There are several important caveats to this, primarily that members of the public cannot travel out of their local area to reach their vessel and that all exercise must be done in line with government guidance i.e. can only be done with members of 1 household/bubble or one other and social distancing is maintained. Members of the public are urged to check with the local navigation authority, harbour authorities and the Marinas for local rules before travelling to their vessels.

DfT released the following statement:

"We have received clarification on guidance relating to boating and leisure activities from CO/DCMS.

Therefore, we can confirm that boating is allowed as exercise (in England). This covers all sailing boats/yachts as long as they abide by the gathering limits, social distance rules and stay local rules.”

British Marine would like to remind all boaters of their responsibility to stay safe, abide by the guidance and laws (including local restrictions) and keep others around them safe when participating on any on water exercise.

 

But you cannot stay overnight on your boat unless it is your primary residence :

 

Staying away from home overnight

You cannot leave your home or the place where you are living for holidays or overnight stays unless you have a reasonable excuse for doing so. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed.

This includes staying in a second home or caravan, if that is not your primary residence. This also includes staying with anyone who you don’t live with unless they’re in your support bubble.

National lockdown: Stay at Home - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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9 minutes ago, Athy said:

They're at a lower level than we are. We're above Marmont Priory lock one way, and the other way there are sluices which empty into the main drain, so if the river ever flooded here, March and Peterborough would probably be under water. You'd be O.K. in Ely of course, as you could retreat up that reassuringly high hill

Ah yes, I forgot that. (It's amusing that the Old River Nene now flows uphill).

 

The reassurance re Ely is that the EA manage the levels to keep Ely at a more or less constant level. It got over 1.0m just before Christmas, the highest I have ever seen it. Many of the boats at Denver and on the Little Ouse are sitting on the bottom.  

https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Detail/1671/1812/2020-12-15/2021-01-15 

Here's a fun video that Paul Burrows from the EA made over the Christmas period.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The BMF have written to the Government and received the following reply (which seems to suggest that using your boat is OK is it is a yacht)

 

Government guidance on boat maintenance during lockdown

Maintaining second homes, caravans, boats and other assets is not generally a reasonable excuse for leaving home. However, people may leave home to secure their second home, caravan or boat in order to avoid it posing a risk of harm/injury to themselves or others.

 

So you can visit your boat to secure it from causing harm to you or others, but you are not permitted to visit to prevent harm to the boat itself.

So the government guidance is that you should let your boat sink if the mooring floods, and not visit to adjust the mooring lines.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

So you can visit your boat to secure it from causing harm to you or others, but you are not permitted to visit to prevent harm to the boat itself.

So the government guidance is that you should let your boat sink if the mooring floods, and not visit to adjust the mooring lines.

 

I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of the 'decisions' just posting it for information.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

So you can visit your boat to secure it from causing harm to you or others, but you are not permitted to visit to prevent harm to the boat itself.

So the government guidance is that you should let your boat sink if the mooring floods, and not visit to adjust the mooring lines.

Not if your boat sinking puts others at risk.

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4 hours ago, nickhindle said:

Does anyone know of anyone that has been "apprehended" by the police for travelling to their boat to check the mooring lines during flooding?

 

I've had an email from the EA to say I'm not allowed to visit my boat, and then a flood warning from the EA that says to check my mooring lines 🥴

I doubt not, I cant imagine the police sitting waiting outside a marina like they do at car parks by beauty spots 

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3 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

So you can visit your boat to secure it from causing harm to you or others, but you are not permitted to visit to prevent harm to the boat itself.

So the government guidance is that you should let your boat sink if the mooring floods, and not visit to adjust the mooring lines.

I'm not sure how far I dare push the argument on this forum, but the guidance quoted allows you to visit to prevent harm to yourself - it is difficult to see how your cottage, caravan or boat can harm you in the physical sense if you're not there. For a sinking boat you're arguably at greater risk of injury if you try to deal with it. Similarly a cottage with a broken door. Thus I would assume that "harm" includes damage to your asset. 

 

There is a thin but apparent line between maintenance and preventing harm, and I can see they don't want people going to their boat to change the oil - no harm will come if you wait for that, whilst acknowledging that making a property, caravan or vessel secure so it doesn't come to further harm is okay. It's your asset to harm to it is harm to you. 

Edited by magpie patrick
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4 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I'm not sure how far I dare push the argument on this forum, but the guidance quoted allows you to visit to prevent harm to yourself - it is difficult to see how your cottage, caravan or boat can harm you in the physical sense if you're not there. For a sinking boat you're arguably at greater risk of injury if you try to deal with it. Similarly a cottage with a broken door. Thus I would assume that "harm" includes damage to your asset. 

 

There is a thin but apparent line between maintenance and preventing harm, and I can see they don't want people going to their boat to change the oil - no harm will come if you wait for that, whilst acknowledging that making a property, caravan or vessel secure so it doesn't come to further harm is okay. It's your asset to harm to it is harm to you. 

It is a legal requirement to have a licence to moor in the marina where our boat currently sits. To have a licence it is a requirement to have insurance. To have insurance it is a requirement to have a BSSC. To have a BDDC means that the boat has to comply with the criteria which the examiner will assess.

 

Therefore to travel to the boat to prepare for a BSS exam is in order to 'fulfil legal obligations'.

 

Or is it? :)

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8 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

To have insurance it is a requirement to have a BSSC.

 

I don't think it is.

Neither of my boats have a BSS and both are insured.

 

My 'Craft Insure' policy simply says that "......... will be maintained in a proper state of repair ................"

 

When you buy a boat you do not have to provide evidence of a BSSC before you can get insurance cover.

 

You can move your boat to be repaired if it has failed its BSSC (1995 Act) and 'permission will not be witheld', but, it will still need to be insured

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

It is a legal requirement to have a licence to moor in the marina where our boat currently sits. To have a licence it is a requirement to have insurance. To have insurance it is a requirement to have a BSSC. To have a BDDC means that the boat has to comply with the criteria which the examiner will assess.

 

Therefore to travel to the boat to prepare for a BSS exam is in order to 'fulfil legal obligations'.

 

Or is it? :)

Not if the BSS can grant an extension as in the last lockdown. 

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43 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I'm not sure how far I dare push the argument on this forum, but the guidance quoted allows you to visit to prevent harm to yourself - it is difficult to see how your cottage, caravan or boat can harm you in the physical sense if you're not there. For a sinking boat you're arguably at greater risk of injury if you try to deal with it. Similarly a cottage with a broken door. Thus I would assume that "harm" includes damage to your asset. 

On the assumption that "harm" can be mental as well as physical, I could put an argument that not knowing whether an item which is not only expensive, but has great sentimental value as my second/holiday home, is safe and secure could cause harm?

 

There are (as always) exceptions but some of these fit real life well; I'd worry less / suffer less mental harm if a trusted friend (or marina owner) contacted me "She's still afloat, i've checked the lines and the bilge and shore power is still on". I'd worry more / stress more if the marina was unmanned and floods were predicted.

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If your boat sinks, there will be an oil and fuel spill.  This will cause harm.  To the environment, to aquatic life and to surrounding boats blacking (where they use bitumen).

 

On that basis you can visit to make sure your boat is safe and to pump out rainwater and stern  tube drips.  Whether your mooring operator lets you in is between you and them.

 

N

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8 hours ago, Athy said:

In this part of the Fens it rained all day yesterday, but no more is forecast at the moment. The fields look soggy but the Old River Nene is at its normal level. Not that I've seen a boat moving on it since the week before Christmas.

Four foot above normal and still rising, people on the outside moorings are in brown trouser mode

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