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Buying a boat in lockdown


Blob Fish

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As newbies to boating, we’re going to be heavily dependent on surveyors/experts to help steer us (hahame) in the right direction.

 

We’ve found a boat that gets a score of 8-10 for each of our criteria, and we love the aesthetic. She is however a slightly older lady (1989 build), should that impact our decision making process? (ie what should we be on the lookout for?) From our research, the big ticket repairs are: hull, engine, and paintjob, but should the survey reveal no immediate or near future issues with these, in that case is age nothing but a number?

 

In a similar vein, how comprehensive is this list of questions to ask (below), or is there a better list somewhere? Is there anything else we should be asking? Unfortunately it looks like we are going to be almost exclusively Zoom viewings for now as well, so it already feels like it’ll be a bit awkward asking questions like, “Is there any smell of mould?”

 

https://www.gypsy-trio.com/complete-checklist-buying-renting-narrowboat/

 

And final question - can a 60’+ NB in the south yorkshire area get to the K&A, Shropshire union, etc? I'm not exactly sure where all the 'pinch points' are in the network. 

 

Thanks so much for your time! :)

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If the hull and mechanicals are found to be 'acceptable', the only other thing to bear in mind is that at an age of 30 years+ your insurers will demand a full survey (unless you go for third party only) and will probably insist on a new survey every 3-4-5 years (depending on who you use).

Not a big issue as you can time it to be done when the boat is out for in blacking. It is just another cost of owneship of an old boat.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Blob Fish said:

and final question - can a 60’+ NB in the south yorkshire area get to the K&A, Shropshire union, etc?

 

Yes, as long as it a NB.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Boaters will say that you dont find the boat, it finds you, or you will know if it is the one within 2 minutes of stepping aboard. Not sure how that will work over Zoom. Why not put a link to the boat for free advice/slagging off etc. The more the forum experts know the more advice you will get.

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The check list you refer to, is plain wrong, regarding Renting a boat, there is much much more information required.  A lot of special permissions are now needed, from C&RT for a start.

The condition check list is ok, certainly better than most I've seen, you are looking for signs of being well cared for, not recently "tarted up".  Being shown around by a knowledgable owner, rather than salesman is a great help.  Smelling is your greatest asset, damp and loo smells, along with "air fresheners" are danger signs.

 

Bod

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On 12/01/2021 at 11:19, Alan de Enfield said:

If the hull and mechanicals are found to be 'acceptable', the only other thing to bear in mind is that at an age of 30 years+ your insurers will demand a full survey (unless you go for third party only) and will probably insist on a new survey every 3-4-5 years (depending on who you use).

Not a big issue as you can time it to be done when the boat is out for in blacking. It is just another cost of owneship of an old boat.

 

 

 

Yes, as long as it a NB.

 

Wonderful that is so good to know, thank you so much! :)

 

On 12/01/2021 at 12:22, Bod said:

The check list you refer to, is plain wrong, regarding Renting a boat, there is much much more information required.  A lot of special permissions are now needed, from C&RT for a start.

The condition check list is ok, certainly better than most I've seen, you are looking for signs of being well cared for, not recently "tarted up".  Being shown around by a knowledgable owner, rather than salesman is a great help.  Smelling is your greatest asset, damp and loo smells, along with "air fresheners" are danger signs.

 

Bod

Oh we are certainly not interested in renting, even if it weren't difficult to arrange buying a narrowboat even if just for a year or two seems to make a lot more fiscal sense. Thanks for that tart tip! ;)

On 12/01/2021 at 19:05, LadyG said:

A warm, dry, cosy boat that has been looked after if you intend to live aboard, if you want a holiday boat, think about ex hire boats. 

Warm dry and cosy that is exactly what we want! We would like to be liveaboards for the foreseeable future, and even CC :) Thanks for the reply!

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On 12/01/2021 at 12:06, Mike Hurley said:

Boaters will say that you dont find the boat, it finds you, or you will know if it is the one within 2 minutes of stepping aboard. Not sure how that will work over Zoom. Why not put a link to the boat for free advice/slagging off etc. The more the forum experts know the more advice you will get.

For sure this is not an ideal situation! Here is one of the boats we're interested in:

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589

 

We have a video for it as well, and of course it does seem nice. However, we really don't need two beds (though we do need two tables/desks for work). We were wondering about the costs of removing one of the beds so that we could have an office instead...the under-bed storage is basically built-in furniture so we are hoping it's y'know not connected to anything important so maybe it's something a carpenter could remove neatly in a few hours? 

 

 

Lyra is also a lovely lady we think, quite a good classic sort of narrowboat aesthetic:

https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/lyra/

 

We also like Badger (that galley!!) but we're not sure how to assess the note that it needs 'some' TLC and (just) 'a lick of paint' for the exterior, since exterior paintjobs can be incredibly expensive: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/triton-narrowboats-50-cruiser-stern-for-sale/654633

 

Some others that we like:

 

Apache

https://newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boats-for-sale/1457

 

Ben

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/peter-nicholls-50-traditional-for-sale/623440

 

Craigdhu

https://newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boats-for-sale/1537

 

Laura James (though this one also has two single berths we have no use for!)

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/654156

 

 

Edited by Blob Fish
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I would say that Badger will be a nice boat once you have spent three summer months on the exterior paintwork. You can do it yourself if you really want, I did mine, though it was pretty free of rust, but a good orbital sander will do a good job.

I like having two means of heating, solid fuel stove is dusty, but it's romantic, lol

A hull survey essential, no one knows until it's out of the water. 

Edited by LadyG
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55 minutes ago, Blob Fish said:

this one also has two single berths we have no use for!

 

That's quite a flexible space though.  If my boat was 8 feet longer I'd have one.

 

Plenty of storage, or a spare lounge when you are getting under each other's feet.  Easy space to convert into an office or hobby room by having a desk instead of a bed.  

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There are some fifty and some sixty footers in there. If you intend living aboard ten feet extra cabin space is a HUGE difference.

 

Especially along the full length of the boat ... ;)

 

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's quite a flexible space though.  If my boat was 8 feet longer I'd have one.

 

Plenty of storage, or a spare lounge when you are getting under each other's feet.  Easy space to convert into an office or hobby room by having a desk instead of a bed.  

Very wise words.

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's quite a flexible space though.  If my boat was 8 feet longer I'd have one.

 

Plenty of storage, or a spare lounge when you are getting under each other's feet.  Easy space to convert into an office or hobby room by having a desk instead of a bed.  

 

Especially along the full length of the boat ... ;)

 

Something many people dont think about when first boat buying!! Whilst this boat is tiny at only 68feet there is actualy 18 inches more liveable useabale space than my 70 footer had.

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11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There are some fifty and some sixty footers in there. If you intend living aboard ten feet extra cabin space is a HUGE difference.

Absolutely, and it's one of the first things we tried figuring out...initially we thought we'd only be able to do 70', then got into the whole "but sub 57' means we can go anywhere" and then "but actually there's very few canals not accessible by 57'+ boats" etc etc.

 

A very odd and at times incredibly vexing thing we've noticed is how space is used. We've seen 50' boats with a better use of space than 57' boats, and shudder whenever we see an engine room! Easy access to the engine for someone who just holidays occasionally on a narrowboat must be nice, but for a couple living on it that space is too precious! :P

 

We thought Amelia might be a good compromise for size...not too long or short (60'), and a spare bed that could potentially be removed and turned into an office. It's a pump out though, and you don't have to read too many stories of those gone wrong to hm think twice about them! 

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25 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's quite a flexible space though.  

It must be hard to tell from photos, but do you think Laura James' extra space is more flexible than Amelia's??

 

Laura James: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/654156

 

Amelia: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589

 

The extra cabin for Amelia is near the stern, which just appeals to me a bit more...so eg if one of us is working in that office, we're not tramping through it unnecessarily. 

47 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would say that Badger will be a nice boat once you have spent three summer months on the exterior paintwork. You can do it yourself if you really want, I did mine, though it was pretty free of rust, but a good orbital sander will do a good job.

I like having two means of heating, solid fuel stove is dusty, but it's romantic, lol

A hull survey essential, no one knows until it's out of the water. 

Oh neither of us are very good at diy I'm afraid unless it's for computers and electronics! If I could watch some youtube videos on using an orbital sander I might be game to try though, so long as I could be reassured that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a fatal mistake eg sand away too much!

 

Thanks for having a look at the boats! We do very much like Badger :)

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12 minutes ago, Blob Fish said:

It must be hard to tell from photos, but do you think Laura James' extra space is more flexible than Amelia's??

 

Laura James: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/654156

 

Amelia: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/walsall-boats-60-traditional-for-sale/618589

 

The extra cabin for Amelia is near the stern, which just appeals to me a bit more...so eg if one of us is working in that office, we're not tramping through it unnecessarily. 

Oh neither of us are very good at diy I'm afraid unless it's for computers and electronics! If I could watch some youtube videos on using an orbital sander I might be game to try though, so long as I could be reassured that it wouldn't be too difficult to make a fatal mistake eg sand away too much!

 

Thanks for having a look at the boats! We do very much like Badger :)

Lol, you will soon get the hang of it, most of the surfaces are flat, do nt use an angle grinder action or you end up with scars.

Taking a boat to a boatyard you have to fit with their schedule and lose use of the boat for three weeks. You don't need a fantastic finish, you want to stop rust.

Buy paint from a place like Rawlins paints, expect to pay about £25per litre. I used International Interdeck on gunwales and anywhere that I might slip, it's tough stuff. You may not think you can't paint, but you will have to learn! 

Edited by LadyG
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I actually looked round two of these in the summer. Both have come down in price. 

 

- Apache's decor wasn't to my taste and all the furniture is fixed. The kitchen is basically a corridor lined with cupboards and dated white tiles and so your workspaces are the sofa or the bed! Condition was OK

- Ben feels small and dark inside (those hatches and doors won't be open in winter) and is really for someone that wants a very traditional boat. It's well looked after, but not exactly young

 

Didn't see Craigdhu but really like the look of it and with that spec, age, apparent condition and broker I'm surprised they're not asking for more

I'd also check Laura James and Lyra are still there as those boat brokers leave a lot of old boat listings up...

Edited by enigmatic
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5 hours ago, Blob Fish said:

< snip > and you don't have to read too many stories of those gone wrong to hm think twice about them! 

Or:

you don't have to read too many stories of people 'getting their own back' emptying cassettes to hm think twice about them! 

 

Edited by Victor Vectis
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7 hours ago, Blob Fish said:

Absolutely, and it's one of the first things we tried figuring out...initially we thought we'd only be able to do 70', then got into the whole "but sub 57' means we can go anywhere" and then "but actually there's very few canals not accessible by 57'+ boats" etc etc.

 

A very odd and at times incredibly vexing thing we've noticed is how space is used. We've seen 50' boats with a better use of space than 57' boats, and shudder whenever we see an engine room! Easy access to the engine for someone who just holidays occasionally on a narrowboat must be nice, but for a couple living on it that space is too precious! :P

 

We thought Amelia might be a good compromise for size...not too long or short (60'), and a spare bed that could potentially be removed and turned into an office. It's a pump out though, and you don't have to read too many stories of those gone wrong to hm think twice about them! 

Actually an engine room, particularly if it contains a relatively modern engine, provides a lot of useful (and flexible) space. It also encourages you too "know" your engine, service it yourself and push to the head of the line when you need expert help on a wet winter's day at a boat yard.

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On 12/01/2021 at 11:06, Mike Hurley said:

Boaters will say that you dont find the boat, it finds you, or you will know if it is the one within 2 minutes of stepping aboard. Not sure how that will work over Zoom. Why not put a link to the boat for free advice/slagging off etc. The more the forum experts know the more advice you will get.

I had to clean and re decorate my boat, plus paint the outside, and do some things to make it all work properly, so now it's nearly finished.

No way did the boat find me, I don't "fall in love", it's just a boat. 

I could have spent a lot of time looking for a perfect boat, but this one had three selling points.

1 by a good builder, and with foam insulation, ie modern

2 free of rust and rot, ie not a project

3 cheap enough to spend £4K straight away and still be reasonable price. 

There was nothing I disliked that could not be put right, biggest problem was, and kind of still is, is living on board while renovating, I still can't remember where every tool, every spare is kept, they keep moving around, I need a man shed.

I suppose I have an engine room, 'cos its a trad, engine is boxed in, there are cupboards for tidying away oil skins, life jackets, diesel containers etc.

A real engine room for a classic boat will be great for admiring glances through the open side hatches, but in winter will act as an airing cupboard. I don't cope with laundry in winter, have just worn my old clothes to destruction and ordered new ones from Marks and Spencer (clearance). 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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On 12/01/2021 at 18:05, LadyG said:

A warm, dry, cosy boat that has been looked after if you intend to live aboard, if you want a holiday boat, think about ex hire boats. 

Why's that then?

 

Are you saying that you shouldn't have a warm, cosy boat if you only want a holiday boat?  I'm sure many will disagree with you and quite rightly!

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5 hours ago, IanM said:

Why's that then?

 

Are you saying that you shouldn't have a warm, cosy boat if you only want a holiday boat?  I'm sure many will disagree with you and quite rightly!

I am thinking it's warmer in summer, so it's not such a deal breaker. To my mind a liveaboard should have two sources of heating, I don't think that is so important in summer, ie when folks are on holiday. Worse case scenario they can up sticks and drive home.

I am not suggesting one would ever knowingly  buy a cold wet boat. 

Edited by LadyG
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8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am thinking it's warmer in summer, so it's not such a deal breaker. To my mind a liveaboard should have two sources of heating, I don't think that is so important in summer, ie when folks are on holiday. Worse case scenario they can up sticks and drive home.

I am not suggesting one would deliberately buy a cold wet boat. 

 

You would appear to be saying that Non-liveaboards can only use their boats in Summer months.

Why ?

 

Winter cruising is just as pleasant for 'weekend boaters' as it is for liveaboards.

 

You appear to be trying to drive a wedge between the two 'groups' which is the opposite of what is needed. In the next few years boaters will be coming under increasing pressures and the last thing needed is a liveaboard being divisive.

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17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am thinking it's warmer in summer, so it's not such a deal breaker. To my mind a liveaboard should have two sources of heating, I don't think that is so important in summer, ie when folks are on holiday. Worse case scenario they can up sticks and drive home.

I am not suggesting one would ever knowingly  buy a cold wet boat. 

We're not liveaboard so therefore fall into your category of holiday boaters.

 

We've got two sources of heating (3 if you count the additional range at the back) and try to use the boat as often as we can and not just in the summer months.  Obviously last year was a little different but we still managed to have a weekend in December.

 

Not everyone takes all their holidays in the summer and I would suggest that a majority of boat owners spread their time over the whole year so you might need to rethink your thoughts on exactly what non-liveaboards' requirements are.  Remember that they have spent just the same amount of money on their boat as you have on yours so will want to get the most use out of it that they can.

 

Granted, there are exceptions but I would suggest they are more down to specific circumstances rather than being liveaboard/non-liveaboard.

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22 hours ago, Blob Fish said:

We were wondering about the costs of removing one of the beds so that we could have an office instead...the under-bed storage is basically built-in furniture so we are hoping it's y'know not connected to anything important so maybe it's something a carpenter could remove neatly in a few hours? 

 

An under bed space may be occupied (or partly occupied) by a poo tank, especially if it is located a bulkhead away from the loo. So check for this before thinking about removing the bunk.

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Just now, David Mack said:

 

An under bed space may be occupied (or partly occupied) by a poo tank, especially if it is located a bulkhead away from the loo. So check for this before thinking about removing the bunk.

 

And possibly an Inveter and Cauliflower.

 

We had a cross-bed & the underbed storage was just 'half' of the bed depth due to all the 'stuff' behind it, so the drawers under the bed were only about 18" deep (front to back)

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20131215_105427.jpg

IMG_20131215_105528.jpg

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