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Washing machines on boats


cairanvanrooyen

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16 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Sorry no.  Sounds plausible though.

 

I can't say enough that a cold wash doesn't really clean clothes though.  Especially between October and April.  Most modern detergents work through enzyme action.  Basically, the enzymes eat the dirt.  Even with recent developments, the absolute lowest temperature that the enzymes with do anything is 15C.  And even then, the work they do is minimal until you get to about 25C.  Add to that, a regular cold wash will not kill bacteria and over time will actually promote bacterial growth.  In the summer, the water in your cold tap may well be over 15C but for much of the year it won't.  What will happen with a cold wash is that the scents added to the detergent will mask the smell of the dirt.  Ok, for an occassional wash but really no good for regular use.

 

The other thing to remember, is that at temperatures much above 40C the enzymes will abruptly stop working completely, so regular hot washes aren't a good idea either. 

 

Regular washing at 30 or 40 degrees with occassional sterilising washes at 60+ degrees is what you want.  That's quite acheivable on a boat.

 

Thanks @doratheexplorer, we are connected to shore power through the winter/colder months, so I think this will not be a major problem for us. We cruise during the summer and this is the reason i am trying to select a washing machine that can operate off the inverter.

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21 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Surely a cold wash won't clean your clothes properly?  Especially at this time of the year.  This is even more true of biological powder/liquid.  The enzymes will not be active at typical cold tap water temperatures.

 

I used to have a twin tub, and the wash cycle will clean your clothes, the spin cycle works fine too.  The problem is there's no sensible way of rinsing, which is just as important as the other stages.  It's also a right faff to set it up each time.

 

Ditching the twin tub for a proper washing machine was one of the best decisions I've made.  I only ever run it from a genny, which puts out a lovely steady sine wave of electricity and means that using it puts no strain on my batteries at all.  Basically it means that doing a wash is no different to in a house on mains electric.

 

I used to dry my washing on an airer in front of the stove in winter or when it's wet out.  But I've improved on that.  I've put little hooks in my walls right up by the ceiling. And now I zig-zag a washing line down the boat from near the stove down through the living room and into the kitchen.  I do this just before going to bed and by morning it's all dry.

 

When the weather is nice, it all goes outside onto a rotary airer which attaches to my swan's neck.

 

 

 

We just do another couple of short wash cycles but only using clean cold water. Works well.

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46 minutes ago, cairanvanrooyen said:

Hi @jetzi, thank you for your response. I would be very grateful indeed if you could measure the peak/surge and continuous power consumption. I am most interested in this machine, as it seems to be the most suitable for my limited inverter output and looks like a decent machine I can rely on.

Unless someone has a very fast digital storage scope or an analogue storage oscilloscope I doubt you will get the peak or surge current because its so transitory. You won't measure it on either an analogue or digital ammeter. However the surge capacity of most reputable inverters should cope with it and from the batteries point of view its so transitory you don't need to worry. If as suggested above the running load is about 400 watts then the surge could be twice that but still within the limits of your inverter.

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15 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I run my 7Kg Candy always cold wash off a Victron 1600 Combi with the engine Beta 43 with 175 alternator running.

It may be that the enzymes don't enjoy the cold but I can't detect any inadequacy in the quality of the output and that's all that matters to me.  The main problem for me is stopping it dancing around, my restraints need tightening.

Thanks - can you please share your washing machine model number?

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1 hour ago, cairanvanrooyen said:

Hi @jetzi, thank you for your response. I would be very grateful indeed if you could measure the peak/surge and continuous power consumption. I am most interested in this machine, as it seems to be the most suitable for my limited inverter output and looks like a decent machine I can rely on.

Will do so in the next few days.

 

19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Unless someone has a very fast digital storage scope or an analogue storage oscilloscope I doubt you will get the peak or surge current because its so transitory. You won't measure it on either an analogue or digital ammeter. However the surge capacity of most reputable inverters should cope with it and from the batteries point of view its so transitory you don't need to worry. If as suggested above the running load is about 400 watts then the surge could be twice that but still within the limits of your inverter.

I can tell you at least the highest number I see :)

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45 minutes ago, jetzi said:

  

Will do so in the next few days.

 

I can tell you at least the highest number I see :)

Of course you can but it won't be accurate. I don't think for a moment it will apply to the OP but if the starting surge or capacitor charging surge was longer and higher than the surge rating of the inverter the inverter would either cut out r damage would be done. Such a reading on conventional instruments will be misleading

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Not very cheap, but this new 4kg Candy washing machine at Midland Chandlers has a "Cold wash button"
 

They claim is has a maximum power consumption of 1600W - i assume this is with the electrical heating element on... i wonder what the peak consumption might be on a cold wash...?

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2 hours ago, cairanvanrooyen said:

Not very cheap, but this new 4kg Candy washing machine at Midland Chandlers has a "Cold wash button"
 

They claim is has a maximum power consumption of 1600W - i assume this is with the electrical heating element on... i wonder what the peak consumption might be on a cold wash...?

Ask Candy?

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On the off chance, i contacted Midland Chandlers, who said the following:

 

"Thank you for contacting us with your question on the candy washing machine, we would say the power consumption on a cold wash would be around 500w, I hope this helps but if you have any other questions please come back to me."...

 

Still waiting for Candy to respond.

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2 minutes ago, cairanvanrooyen said:

On the off chance, i contacted Midland Chandlers, who said the following:

 

"Thank you for contacting us with your question on the candy washing machine, we would say the power consumption on a cold wash would be around 500w, I hope this helps but if you have any other questions please come back to me."...

 

Still waiting for Candy to respond.

Sounds feasible. Not the best company out of the blocks are Candy/Hoover. I personally don't like them much, prefer Zanussi/Electrolux.

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On 13/01/2021 at 08:36, cairanvanrooyen said:

Hi @jetzi, thank you for your response. I would be very grateful indeed if you could measure the peak/surge and continuous power consumption. I am most interested in this machine, as it seems to be the most suitable for my limited inverter output and looks like a decent machine I can rely on.

I ran a wash today and I have some results for you.

 

Prior to the test I charged up the battery to 86% SoC. Normally I do washing when cruising or on sunny days, but to try to get some really accurate figures I left the engine off and turned off the solar. I also turned off all loads in the boat except the water pump, the inverter and battery monitoring equipment. At rest this was using about 2.5A at 13.4V.

 

I did a "Synthetics 60deg cycle", with cold wash button pressed and spin RPM turned down to 800. The machine said it would take 1h 40min and it actually took 2h 15min. I used actually cold water, ambient temperature is about 7 degrees.

 

Here are the results recorded by a Victron BMV712 battery monitor.

 

After the cycle the battery was at 80% SoC and had consumed 38Ah in total for the cycle (about 500Wh). Throughout the wash cycle the motor was using bursts at 160W, and 300W maximum (when starting the spin cycle).

 

Except for one important anomaly. While filling there was a big spike, and the only explanation is that the heating element came on - I definitely had the cold wash button pressed, but perhaps if the water is below a certain temperature it does kick in? I took Cruising the Cut guy at face value when he said the cold wash button totally disables the heater. The heater took 216.5A / 2600W for about 3/4 minutes, which means that 4 minutes accounted for 40% of the entire cycle! At least it only happened once, right at the start .

 

 

 

 image.png.9146a8a2fa713166b1ec570224b86e35.png

 

So that's that, hope it helps. This kind of does suggest to me that if you buy this machine, you either need to do some surgery to disconnect the heater, or you're going to need to attach the inlet to warm water to prevent the heater coming on. Or, get a machine with a "true cold wash" button. But it may not be only this machine that does this - I'm not sure how you could find out whether the button is really effective or not. In any event, as someone said above you probably don't ever want to do washing below 10 degrees anyway - so you probably want to find a way to connect hot water. 

 

I also filled my water tank before and after the cycle, and I can also say that it used about 45-50 litres of water to do a 7kg load.

 

At some point I'll try to figure out what temperature the water needs to be at to prevent the heater coming on - my guess is 15-20 degrees.

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13 hours ago, jetzi said:

I ran a wash today and I have some results for you.

 

Prior to the test I charged up the battery to 86% SoC. Normally I do washing when cruising or on sunny days, but to try to get some really accurate figures I left the engine off and turned off the solar. I also turned off all loads in the boat except the water pump, the inverter and battery monitoring equipment. At rest this was using about 2.5A at 13.4V.

 

I did a "Synthetics 60deg cycle", with cold wash button pressed and spin RPM turned down to 800. The machine said it would take 1h 40min and it actually took 2h 15min. I used actually cold water, ambient temperature is about 7 degrees.

 

Here are the results recorded by a Victron BMV712 battery monitor.

 

After the cycle the battery was at 80% SoC and had consumed 38Ah in total for the cycle (about 500Wh). Throughout the wash cycle the motor was using bursts at 160W, and 300W maximum (when starting the spin cycle).

 

Except for one important anomaly. While filling there was a big spike, and the only explanation is that the heating element came on - I definitely had the cold wash button pressed, but perhaps if the water is below a certain temperature it does kick in? I took Cruising the Cut guy at face value when he said the cold wash button totally disables the heater. The heater took 216.5A / 2600W for about 3/4 minutes, which means that 4 minutes accounted for 40% of the entire cycle! At least it only happened once, right at the start .

 

 

 

 image.png.9146a8a2fa713166b1ec570224b86e35.png

 

So that's that, hope it helps. This kind of does suggest to me that if you buy this machine, you either need to do some surgery to disconnect the heater, or you're going to need to attach the inlet to warm water to prevent the heater coming on. Or, get a machine with a "true cold wash" button. But it may not be only this machine that does this - I'm not sure how you could find out whether the button is really effective or not. In any event, as someone said above you probably don't ever want to do washing below 10 degrees anyway - so you probably want to find a way to connect hot water. 

 

I also filled my water tank before and after the cycle, and I can also say that it used about 45-50 litres of water to do a 7kg load.

 

At some point I'll try to figure out what temperature the water needs to be at to prevent the heater coming on - my guess is 15-20 degrees.

Hi @jetzi thank you very much for this very detailed information. This is really useful and possibly saved me £450. Very interesting indeed.

 

It is, however disappointing and means my search continues.

 

I had a thought about buying a decent second hand washing machine and disconnecting the heater element, but assume this would also mean shorting a temperature sensor or two - has anyone else attempted this?

 

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This company makes hot fill machines. UK made. Not cheap. If you have a source of hot water on board, one would do the job off the shelf. No idea if they will fit the space you want, or if the electronics take a dislike to inverters, or generators. Never seen/used one.

Jenny

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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On 14/01/2021 at 10:21, cairanvanrooyen said:

On the off chance, i contacted Midland Chandlers, who said the following:

 

"Thank you for contacting us with your question on the candy washing machine, we would say the power consumption on a cold wash would be around 500w, I hope this helps but if you have any other questions please come back to me."...

 

Still waiting for Candy to respond.

I have this machine (3yr old).  Using the 1hr wash on cold it uses about 10Ah with a maximum draw of 250w.

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On 17/01/2021 at 10:06, DaveP said:

I have this machine (3yr old).  Using the 1hr wash on cold it uses about 10Ah with a maximum draw of 250w.

Hi @DaveP - what size inverter do you have? Do you know if your machine has any anomalous spikes of peak power (similar to post #67 above)?

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14 minutes ago, cairanvanrooyen said:

Hi @DaveP - what size inverter do you have? Do you know if your machine has any anomalous spikes of peak power (similar to post #67 above)?

I have a 1kw pure-sine inverter.  So, no in-machine water heating, just push the cold wash button and supply from a Morco geyser.  There will be spikes as the drum motor starts, but the only time the inverter complained was when a motor start coincided with the fridge compressor starting.

 

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1 minute ago, DaveP said:

I have a 1kw pure-sine inverter.  So, no in-machine water heating, just push the cold wash button and supply from a Morco geyser.  There will be spikes as the drum motor starts, but the only time the inverter complained was when a motor start coincided with the fridge compressor starting.

 

Thank you, this is good news for me, as my inverter is 1250W, so it will operate this washing machine. Great, thanks again!

Edited by cairanvanrooyen
add watts
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12 minutes ago, DaveP said:

no in-machine water heating, just push the cold wash button and supply from a Morco geyser.

Don't mean to doubt you, but are you sure that the reason the heating element doesn't come on is because you use hot water from the geyser? Or are you trusting that the "cold wash" button means the heater is disabled no matter the temperature? The heating element of the Hotpoint doesn't come on either if the water is at least at room temperature, but for @cairanvanrooyen's purposes he wants to be sure that it doesn't accidentally trigger I think.

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Just now, jetzi said:

Don't mean to doubt you, but are you sure that the reason the heating element doesn't come on is because you use hot water from the geyser? Or are you trusting that the "cold wash" button means the heater is disabled no matter the temperature? The heating element of the Hotpoint doesn't come on either if the water is at least at room temperature, but for @cairanvanrooyen's purposes he wants to be sure that it doesn't accidentally trigger I think.

Yep, have run it without the geyser lit, no heater fires up (it's rated at 1250w and overpowers my 1000w inverter immediately - the older model of the machine had a 1kw heater which the inverter would cope with as long as the alternator was supplying power to the batteries to prevent voltage droop on the 12v side).

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How urgent is your need to know? As I said earlier I have a 3.5 kg Candy and were I able to go to the boat I could easily run it on a cold cycle via the inverter and keep a close eye on the battery monitoring. I'd only have to watch constantly during and just after the fill stage. I imagine I'll be going to the boat the first day I can. ?

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