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Lining Paneling Question


Batainte

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Hello all, been working on fitting out the interior of the boat and was wondering whether anyone has done this job in past? Its a widebeam 70x12
Would you have a good advice about different materials for ceiling/ wall panels? What thickness would be optimal? Are there special products to use that would help in reducing condensation/ moisture passing through the panels in/ out of cabin?
If I was to use regular or moisture resistant mdf (or plywood?) panels what thickness should I go for as there are 6/9/12 mm options? Was after a T&G effect ceiling panels.
Thanks in advance.
Edited by Batainte
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Best way to get T&G effect is to use real T&G.  Easy to work, easy to fit.  MDF is awful stuff, lethal to work with,  doesn't like damp, even the MR stuff.  The regular stuff turns to mush, the MR stuff swells and warps.

 

For wall panels you want WPB (water and boil proof) ply.  You can get it with pretty veneers if a timber finish is your thing.  Thickness depends on what you want to fasten to it.  If nothing much except say lights and the odd picture,  then you can get away with 9mm.  Otherwise 12mm thick is minimum up to 18mm if your weight budget allows and you need to hang heavy items off the walls.  18mm thick 8×4 sheets are in the two or more Weetabix bracket though.

 

A vapour barrier should be part of the insulation.  If it is not you need to install one.  Builders polythene and aluminium tape will do it.  It is also a good idea to give the backs of the sheets of ply a coat or two of varnish or prime and undercoat them. Use real solvent based paint or varnish inside and behind.  The water based stuff is total carp.

 

N

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Awesome tips, thanks for the advice.

In regards to moisture barrier- was really contemplating about this, it is a sailaway and has a 60mm closed cell sprayfoam insulation throughout with extra thickness sprayed in other parts. 

Spoke with the company who sprayfoamed and they advised that with 50mm insultaion it should sufficient and since it is closed cell, then apparently no vapour barrier would be needed. Their comment was that at this stage its not worth spending extra several £100's to improve something by a 2-4%.

Obviously a seller is a seller, but the end user is just tangled in infinite product sales pitches- so no personal opinion on this matter, except for their confidence and "expertise".

Whats your take on this?

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I used waterproof MDF for my ceiling some 20 years ago and would rate it much higher than WPB ply. Some of that old 20 year old stuff is still kicking around the yard and is as sound as the day it was bought. I wouldn't use it for walls due to the lack of strength, even screwing a picture to the wall, the other down side as mentioned is working with it when cutting and machining .

 

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If it is sprayfoamed there  is no need for an extra  vapour barrier.  Buy a tin or two of No Nonsense foam from Screwfix and use it to touch up any damage to the spray foam.  Gun grade is easiest, but you have to buy the gun so if there us not much needed the ordinary upside down can variety is fine.

60mm of foam sounds like plenty of insulation effect too.

 

N

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I bought a hull tat was sprayfoamed and it was crap, like a coat of paint in places. Luckily for me the hull builder backed me up and the company who did the job came all the way to Suffolk and resprayed it. They wanted to send me half a dozen cans to start with, it was only because the hull builder told them they wouldn't get any more work they came and fixed it. The end result was I had a lot of trimming back to do.

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20 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I used waterproof MDF for my ceiling some 20 years ago and would rate it much higher than WPB ply. Some of that old 20 year old stuff is still kicking around the yard and is as sound as the day it was bought. I wouldn't use it for walls due to the lack of strength, even screwing a picture to the wall, the other down side as mentioned is working with it when cutting and machining .

 

Thats interesting as several people have advised against MDF due to possibilities of absorbing moisture, bulging and warping over a period of several years. Did you treat it in any way with some special products (varnish, sealant, PVA?) before installing?

 

19 hours ago, BEngo said:

If it is sprayfoamed there  is no need for an extra  vapour barrier.  Buy a tin or two of No Nonsense foam from Screwfix and use it to touch up any damage to the spray foam.  Gun grade is easiest, but you have to buy the gun so if there us not much needed the ordinary upside down can variety is fine.

60mm of foam sounds like plenty of insulation effect too.

 

N

Thats what the sprayfoam people mentioned- apparently 50mm is more than enough for domestic use. Had to check the thickness and in some places it was even 80mm thick.

19 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I bought a hull tat was sprayfoamed and it was crap, like a coat of paint in places. Luckily for me the hull builder backed me up and the company who did the job came all the way to Suffolk and resprayed it. They wanted to send me half a dozen cans to start with, it was only because the hull builder told them they wouldn't get any more work they came and fixed it. The end result was I had a lot of trimming back to do.

Thats a true boat builder, its always good to know there are still people in this business who care for their customers.

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47 minutes ago, Batainte said:

Thats interesting as several people have advised against MDF due to possibilities of absorbing moisture, bulging and warping over a period of several years. Did you treat it in any way with some special products (varnish, sealant, PVA?) before installing?

No just painted the face

 

Thats what the sprayfoam people mentioned- apparently 50mm is more than enough for domestic use. Had to check the thickness and in some places it was even 80mm thick. 

Mine was 1mm in places you could see the steel

Thats a true boat builder, its always good to know there are still people in this business who care for their customers.

No longer building

 

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For the ceiling was hoping to use 9mm or 12mm waterproof MDF panels with T&G effect (picture below) + seal them on both sides with oil based undercoat + painting in colour to my liking.

 

Would this be workable and still be able to withstand the test of time?

RB MR MDF 9mm.jpg

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Many different experiences and methods and no two quite the same. Bee is panelled in proper t&g, lengthways on the roof and vertical on the sides. Below the gunnel it is proper plank tapered and  forced into shape merging with proper plank floorboards. (Bee is shaped like a tapered barrel so never again!)  I sprayfoamed the shell myself so in places it is brilliant, in other places it is pretty rubbish. No vapour barrier and no problems at all but we don't live on through the winter. I would not use proper t&g as it shrinks, swells and moves all over the place. Painting the back of panelling is a must or it will cup . priming is not enough, it needs to be just as good both sides I would be very tempted to try that greenish stuff in the picture above.

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If you use real wood T&G, paint or varnish the front face, including the whole of the tongue, in your chosen finish, and then after fixing just touch up or do one final coat. That way you won't see a different colour in the gaps between the boards when they shrink in dry weather.

  • Greenie 1
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Several people have referred to T&G timber, when what they may mean is Matchboard, which is a decorative variation of T&G, with champhered edges, designed to throw the light and consequently help to hide summer shrinkage. If ordering from a stockist, it is important to state which you actually need, or you may end up with floorboards.  Below are two photos which illustrate the difference

 

 

         FSC Redwood Tongue and Groove 25 x 150mm (act size 20.5 x 145mm)  115 X 18MM (5" X 1") PTG&V MATCHBOARD TREATED | Smiths Timber Merchants

                                         T&G board                                                                             Matchboard

 

 

                                         

Edited by David Schweizer
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15 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

And you base that statement on what?

I had to strip and refit 2 boats that were less than two years old.  Water resistant green MDF was used for linings and furniture, the whole lot fell apart due to damp and lack of suitable adhesives for MDF.

 

I like OSB, hate chipboard and MDF, yes, I know some is waterproof but I still reckon its not for boat building.

 

We all have our foibles.

 

 

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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53 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I had to strip and refit 2 boats that were less than two years old.  Water resistant green MDF was used for linings and furniture, the whole lot fell apart due to damp and lack of suitable adhesives for MDF.

 

I like OSB, hate chipboard and MDF, yes, I know some is waterproof but I still reckon its not for boat building.

 

We all have our foibles.

 

 

I found the biggest problem is fixing to Waterproof MDF as screws don't hold very well. I cant tell you exactly what brand I used but I went to a timber suppler locally and discussed it with them, thankfully they have me the right advice and stuff. I wouldn't know where to buy it today as they have since closed down, like lots of propper companies.

 

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I found the biggest problem is fixing to Waterproof MDF as screws don't hold very well. I cant tell you exactly what brand I used but I went to a timber suppler locally and discussed it with them, thankfully they have me the right advice and stuff. I wouldn't know where to buy it today as they have since closed down, like lots of propper companies.

 

I think that there is a glue meant for MDF but have never found it! The structure of the board suggests to me that if the board is not permeable to the glue it is not going to work as it just peals a layer off. If its waterproof, then nothing is going to soak in.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I think that there is a glue meant for MDF but have never found it! The structure of the board suggests to me that if the board is not permeable to the glue it is not going to work as it just peals a layer off. If its waterproof, then nothing is going to soak in.

I only did a small amount of gluing, When I put a couple of lights in the wrong place, I glued patches in the holes with Gripfix, but that didn't have any loading on it.

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

Experience.

Sorry, I didn't realise you had fitted a boat out

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On 13/01/2021 at 11:04, David Schweizer said:

Several people have referred to T&G timber, when what they may mean is Matchboard, which is a decorative variation of T&G, with champhered edges, designed to throw the light and consequently help to hide summer shrinkage. If ordering from a stockist, it is important to state which you actually need, or you may end up with floorboards.  Below are two photos which illustrate the difference

 

 

         FSC Redwood Tongue and Groove 25 x 150mm (act size 20.5 x 145mm)  115 X 18MM (5" X 1") PTG&V MATCHBOARD TREATED | Smiths Timber Merchants

                                         T&G board                                                                             Matchboard

 

 

                                         

Thats super helpful, thanks for this suggestion. Was actually considering to use hardwood pieces for the ceiling.
Firstly would line the ceiling with sealed (oil based undercoat preferably with 2+ layers) 9mm marine ply and then screwing+ gluing T&G hardwood pieces lengthways. Wondering how this might work?

 

On 12/01/2021 at 12:39, David Mack said:

If you use real wood T&G, paint or varnish the front face, including the whole of the tongue, in your chosen finish, and then after fixing just touch up or do one final coat. That way you won't see a different colour in the gaps between the boards when they shrink in dry weather.

Actually was experiencing this when refitting another boat a year ago- the grooves had to continuously repainted due to timber "movement" as it swells and shrinks. Best is to do it right the first time (even if it takes extra time) 

On 13/01/2021 at 11:46, Tracy D'arth said:

I had to strip and refit 2 boats that were less than two years old.  Water resistant green MDF was used for linings and furniture, the whole lot fell apart due to damp and lack of suitable adhesives for MDF.

 

I like OSB, hate chipboard and MDF, yes, I know some is waterproof but I still reckon its not for boat building.

 

We all have our foibles.

 

 

Wondering what would you use for the furniture (kitchen cabinets, wardrobe) instead of water resistant MDF? Surely OSB wouldnt be good enough for carcases?

Edited by Batainte
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On 12/01/2021 at 14:41, dave moore said:

The late Trevor Ward, a superb craftsman who worked at Norton Canes used to add 5 coats of varnish to the back of any lining timber, 7 coats to the visible face. The boards looked almost like glass! Those were the days!

Would you know would be the product he used? Trying to navigate the seas of materials and brands nowadays is rather overwhelming 

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On 12/01/2021 at 11:29, Bee said:

Many different experiences and methods and no two quite the same. Bee is panelled in proper t&g, lengthways on the roof and vertical on the sides. Below the gunnel it is proper plank tapered and  forced into shape merging with proper plank floorboards. (Bee is shaped like a tapered barrel so never again!)  I sprayfoamed the shell myself so in places it is brilliant, in other places it is pretty rubbish. No vapour barrier and no problems at all but we don't live on through the winter. I would not use proper t&g as it shrinks, swells and moves all over the place. Painting the back of panelling is a must or it will cup . priming is not enough, it needs to be just as good both sides I would be very tempted to try that greenish stuff in the picture above.

Would you be able to suggest which type of paint (just any regular oil based with undercoat/ primer) any particular brands?

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On 12/01/2021 at 12:39, David Mack said:

If you use real wood T&G, paint or varnish the front face, including the whole of the tongue, in your chosen finish, and then after fixing just touch up or do one final coat. That way you won't see a different colour in the gaps between the boards when they shrink in dry weather.

err ...............................   make sure you have sealed the hidden face as well.  

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