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Stiff gas isolator


blackrose

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46 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

My error, I was so taken aback by pete.i's comment that I rushed a reply. Did my reply seem "inflamatory" to anyone else? Odd really because the freezing point of butane is higher than propane. Stands to reason when you think about it.

No I didn’t. But as usual it is the trouble with interpretation of the written word. If you committed any crime it was perhaps a paucity of words. The fewer the words, and words not wrapped up in niceties, the easier it is to put an unintended interpretation on it. I don’t know if you and he have “history” but if not, he was just having a bad day.

 

But then equally, I get criticism for being too verbose! Sometime you just can’t win!

Edited by nicknorman
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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you checked the flow rate is compatible (4kg) with the existing ones ?

 

I once bought one that was much cheaper than the others to find out it has a very low flow rate and wouldn't work everything.

Thanks, just checked. Yes it's the same 4kg/h.

 

Do the ones I've ordered look ok? Is COK1 a known manufacturer or cheap crap?

Edited by blackrose
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24 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Do the ones I've ordered look ok? Is COK1 a known manufacturer or cheap crap?

 

Never heard of them - but I get mine from a 'Calor' dealer to avoid any problems with incompatabilty (probably wouldn't ever be, but if one of the caravans burst into fire and someone was killed I wouldn't want it to because I'd save'd a quid on a gas regulator - and given the insurers wriggle-room).

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I suspect it's a product code for

 

Change

Over

Kit

1

 

Not a manufacturer's name.

Oh, well done! I wouldn't have even thought of that.

 

Well, it says it EN12864 approved, although that standard may have been superseded.

 

https://landingpage.bsigroup.com/LandingPage/Undated?UPI=000000000030189573

 

Calor is out of stock of that manual changeover valve and they don't even say what test standard theirs is approved to in their specs?

 

https://appliances.calor.co.uk/essentials-propane-37mbar-4kg-manual-changeover-valve-kit.html

 

 

Edited by blackrose
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I've got my new regulators and found they are Continental brand made by DHP India. Are the top and base of all regulators crimped like this?

 

They look ok but state not to be used on boats!

 

Before I return them for a refund, do all manufacturers of LPG regulators state this in the small print?

 

 

IMG_20210116_121311.jpg

IMG_20210116_121319.jpg

IMG_20210116_121333.jpg

IMG_20210116_122255.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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Can anyone recommend a supplier or manufacturer of regulators which are suitable for installation on boats? The only manual changeover valve/regulator that I can see on the Calor Marine Shop website is only 30mb.

 

These instructions are for the ones I've just bought so I'll return them for a refund.

 

IMG_20210116_122514.jpg

 

My existing 15 year old regulators were manufactured to BS3016 - I'm not sure if they were designed with boats and caravans in mind as it doesn't say anything in the instructions?

 

Edited by blackrose
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Have you looked at BES? https://www.bes.co.uk
 

Im sure they could advise if any of their products specifically exclude use on boats.

 

In the case of the one you already bought, the boat exclusion is probably because in places like India, there is no BSS and probably no perceived need for a gas locker. But it does look a little bit cheap and nasty! Yes the tops and bottoms are crimped together, but I think it is usually done a bit more neatly and comprehensively than your photo shows.

Edited by nicknorman
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Thanks, I'm finding this really confusing.

 

The Calor Shop website states:  Regulators should be Manufactured to European Standard 12867 which is now required for caravans and motor homes built to EN1949. 

 

This kit is on the BES website but it looks like it doesn't comply and isn't meant for installation on boats?

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/lpg-manual-changeover-kit-propane-12679/

 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if this BES one is exactly the same as the ones I've just bought, just more expensive.

 

 

Edited by blackrose
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I have heard of regulators being bought from chandlers, specifically Calcutt, and still being marked "not for use on boats"  so I would not be concerned about that.

It may have something to do with bottle inversion putting liquid into the regulator but unless you capsize that is never going to happen in a canal boat.

There was a query some time ago about the outlet of some regulators not being a BSP thread so its worth checking that.

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ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say.

 

A36F92AF-A770-490C-BFC9-A1028C9598F1.png.7de58590a59dab245a98977e499ef25b.png
 

so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard. And in any case, it’s not a requirement to meet this ISO on an older boat.

Edited by nicknorman
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1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard.

 

It's probably cheaper and easier to just buy one that meets EN 12864:2001, Annex M or EN 13786 than roll your own compliant system though. (see the footnote in your image)

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say.

 

A36F92AF-A770-490C-BFC9-A1028C9598F1.png.7de58590a59dab245a98977e499ef25b.png
 

Thanks for that. So the regulators I've bought have a different EN number, although they may exceed EN 12864, I've really no idea. Anyway I don't like the crimped body so they're going back.

 

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

EN 12864 mentioned above, now replaced by EN 16129. 
 

EN 13786 is about auto-changeover devices.

Ok, you've answered that too - thanks.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

ISO 10329 which is the part of the RCD relating to LPG installations on small craft, only has this to say.

 

A36F92AF-A770-490C-BFC9-A1028C9598F1.png.7de58590a59dab245a98977e499ef25b.png
 

so I take from that that it’s not a requirement for the regulator to meet any specific published standard. And in any case, it’s not a requirement to meet this ISO on an older boat.

The reason ‘normal’ regulators are marked ‘not for boats’ is I think to do with section 5.2 above.  Specifically the need to have an ‘over pressure’ device to prevent high pressure gas entering the boat gas system should the regulator fail. Though from memory the bss does not require this, though it is law for certain salty water boats.

 

something like this - 

https://gasproducts.co.uk/gas-regulators/marine-gas-regulators/gasboat-marine-30mbar-gas-regulator-bulkhead.html

 

you can see the gas escape port at 12 o’clock 

Edited by Chewbacka
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10 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

The reason ‘normal’ regulators are marked ‘not for boats’ is I think to do with section 5.2 above.  Specifically the need to have an ‘over pressure’ device to prevent high pressure gas entering the boat gas system should the regulator fail. Though from memory the bss does not require this, though it is law for certain salty water boats.

So I assume all boats fitted out in compliance with the RCD rather than the BSS would have an overpressure device in the gas locker?

 

With LPG on boats being such a potentially hazardous issue, one would have thought that information relating to compliance of systems would have been made clear and easy to find!  I'm amazed how difficult it is to get clear and accurate information.

 

Edited by blackrose
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1 minute ago, blackrose said:

So I assume all boats fitted out in compliance with the RCD rather than the BSS would have an overpressure device in the gas locker?

 

If they claim compliance with the iso std then yes, though I would have to check the iso std to see if Inland waterways boats are exempt.

 

But even if there is no exemption, and as the marine regulator costs about double, and as narrowboats are self certified then I can only guess........... 

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