Ex Life Boat

[zenataomm]

5 hours ago, David Yule said:

The locks are too narrow near me.

Most of the members here are more interested in the history and traditions of our inland waterways. 

Consequently any post that suggests the author is more interested in how to get around the rules than anything will always raise hackles.

I suspect "Tony Brooks" observation about Airbnb is a likely contender.

Which as we all know wouldn't work for too many reasons for me to be bothered to list here (but of course are all easily found on C&RT website or here if you use "Search")

 

No OP, the locks aren't too narrow near you.   They're exactly correct for The North Oxford canal.   

It's as inappropriate as saying the delicatessen counter at Sainsburys is too inaccessible to drive an artic past. 

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

I cannot understand why anyone who allegedly owns 3 properties (presumably of some capital value and/or providing substantial income) would want to blight our waterways (or even just a short length of one canal) with an unsuitable boat, clearly with no interest in cruising. 

 

I suggest you make a moveable shed from some wheelie bins fixed to a pallet on castors and park it in a residents' car park or a pleasant country road.  See how long it is before the plod or the locals remove the offending object and very possibly you as well.

Apart from the OP implying that it might be moored on a pound where the locks are not wide enough to take it, in what sense are you saying that it is an 'unsuitable boat'? Would you make that remark - in the same way - about a shiny new wide beam on the North Oxford? (OK, so we might be perhaps in a different way)

 

Using that expression does tend to suggest that you feel there should be a subjective visual test (a bit like Planning Permission in a protected area) before a boat is allowed on the water. I can think of plenty of boats that I have included in my blog as 'Unusual' (and even sometimes 'ugly) - and I feel entitled to make that judgement as a personal view - but it is an altogether different step towards an authoritarian society to say that just because I don't like it it must be banned.

 

As yet, no-one seems to have stopped to give David chapter and verse about what he can and cannot do, so here's a few for starters:

 

1. Any boat must have a safety certificate (BSC) and be re-tested every few years with the exception that - just like a car - a new build has to conform to the RCD regs and then be tested after 4 years. The requirements for BSC are largely about the safety of others but, IIRC, the RCD does include the safety of its users, such as stability testing. The regs are fairly extensive and, as always with these things, do require a measure of interpretation which means that when it comes to something a bit out of the ordinary, one examiner may take a different view from another. Again, as always, best to consult an expert beforehand (like getting a service just before an MOT). The smoothest passage through a BSC exam is to understand what they are about and to go with the flow rather than against the grain. If the examiner (or expert) says that you cannot do what you are planning, in some particular, best to ask them, this is what I want to achieve, how is it best to do so in a compliant - and safe - way?

 

2. Both insurance and a licence are needed (or a permit if only on certain rivers) - there are exceptions for boats that stay permanently in a few marinas. Each will have their own requirements - some insurance companies, for example, have rules for extra examinations for older boats.

 

3. The general rule, written into law, is that you do not have a general right to moor permanently in one place on the canals. That is interpreted as either requiring you to have a paid-for mooring, canal-side or in a marina, and to declare that on your licence application. If you do not want to have such a mooring and are generally living on the boat permanently, then  you will have to move every few days. (there is a specific limit but it is best not to push it to the limit every time and risk a misunderstanding with the enforcement folk) The problem is that the definition of 'moving' is 'making a bona fide journey' but there is a lot of muddy water between, on the one hand, someone going around the network and staying a couple of weeks in each place before moving on for a day or so's cruise and stopping again and, on the other hand, someone who stays always in the same place except for the occasional quick shuffle up to a water point/elsan station.

 

4. If you are thinking of renting out space on your boat, then forget it - the list of additional regulations makes it pretty much impossible to do, make money and be legal - other than for holiday hire companies. There is also quite a bit to do if you want to work from your boat. Just sitting at a desk and using the internet (same as in a house) is probably OK but trading - such as selling rag dolls to the public, or cups of instant coffee, is also controlled and you need to speak to CaRT ahead of making any plans. Carrying people is also complicated. In all these cases, talk with your insurer up front.

 

Above all else, get on the right side of local boaters - even the grumpy ones have experience and advice to offer. But just be aware that for every five boaters you ask you will get at least ten different answers - sometimes with none of them right!

 

If you are planning a live aboard lifestyle and know how to keep within the restrictions, do your homework about where the basic facilities are located. You will need water, fuel, rubbish disposal, sewage disposal, shops for food and so on. As with a house, decide whether you want isolation or to avoid regular long walks - may be OK in summer but can get very difficult in winter, especially on towpaths not yet adapted to intensive cycling. And also note that your chosen location, may be for work or schools, may have very few legitimate places to moor - eg Bath and central London.

 

And all that is for starters!

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As yet, no-one seems to have stopped to give David chapter and verse about what he can and cannot do, so here's a few for starters:

 

Don't forget another important one which is already law but now looks as if it will be incorporated into the new Licence T&Cs

 

5. No person shall bring, use, or leave in any canal any vessel which is not in every respect fit for navigation on the canal or part thereof where it is intended to be used.

[David Yule]

17 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Apart from the OP implying that it might be moored on a pound where the locks are not wide enough to take it, in what sense are you saying that it is an 'unsuitable boat'? Would you make that remark - in the same way - about a shiny new wide beam on the North Oxford? (OK, so we might be perhaps in a different way)

 

Using that expression does tend to suggest that you feel there should be a subjective visual test (a bit like Planning Permission in a protected area) before a boat is allowed on the water. I can think of plenty of boats that I have included in my blog as 'Unusual' (and even sometimes 'ugly) - and I feel entitled to make that judgement as a personal view - but it is an altogether different step towards an authoritarian society to say that just because I don't like it it must be banned.

 

As yet, no-one seems to have stopped to give David chapter and verse about what he can and cannot do, so here's a few for starters:

 

1. Any boat must have a safety certificate (BSC) and be re-tested every few years with the exception that - just like a car - a new build has to conform to the RCD regs and then be tested after 4 years. The requirements for BSC are largely about the safety of others but, IIRC, the RCD does include the safety of its users, such as stability testing. The regs are fairly extensive and, as always with these things, do require a measure of interpretation which means that when it comes to something a bit out of the ordinary, one examiner may take a different view from another. Again, as always, best to consult an expert beforehand (like getting a service just before an MOT). The smoothest passage through a BSC exam is to understand what they are about and to go with the flow rather than against the grain. If the examiner (or expert) says that you cannot do what you are planning, in some particular, best to ask them, this is what I want to achieve, how is it best to do so in a compliant - and safe - way?

 

2. Both insurance and a licence are needed (or a permit if only on certain rivers) - there are exceptions for boats that stay permanently in a few marinas. Each will have their own requirements - some insurance companies, for example, have rules for extra examinations for older boats.

 

3. The general rule, written into law, is that you do not have a general right to moor permanently in one place on the canals. That is interpreted as either requiring you to have a paid-for mooring, canal-side or in a marina, and to declare that on your licence application. If you do not want to have such a mooring and are generally living on the boat permanently, then  you will have to move every few days. (there is a specific limit but it is best not to push it to the limit every time and risk a misunderstanding with the enforcement folk) The problem is that the definition of 'moving' is 'making a bona fide journey' but there is a lot of muddy water between, on the one hand, someone going around the network and staying a couple of weeks in each place before moving on for a day or so's cruise and stopping again and, on the other hand, someone who stays always in the same place except for the occasional quick shuffle up to a water point/elsan station.

 

4. If you are thinking of renting out space on your boat, then forget it - the list of additional regulations makes it pretty much impossible to do, make money and be legal - other than for holiday hire companies. There is also quite a bit to do if you want to work from your boat. Just sitting at a desk and using the internet (same as in a house) is probably OK but trading - such as selling rag dolls to the public, or cups of instant coffee, is also controlled and you need to speak to CaRT ahead of making any plans. Carrying people is also complicated. In all these cases, talk with your insurer up front.

 

Above all else, get on the right side of local boaters - even the grumpy ones have experience and advice to offer. But just be aware that for every five boaters you ask you will get at least ten different answers - sometimes with none of them right!

 

If you are planning a live aboard lifestyle and know how to keep within the restrictions, do your homework about where the basic facilities are located. You will need water, fuel, rubbish disposal, sewage disposal, shops for food and so on. As with a house, decide whether you want isolation or to avoid regular long walks - may be OK in summer but can get very difficult in winter, especially on towpaths not yet adapted to intensive cycling. And also note that your chosen location, may be for work or schools, may have very few legitimate places to moor - eg Bath and central London.

 

And all that is for starters!

Thank you Mike for your kind reply. Most informative. I'm just gathering info at the moment. The River Trent is only 1 hour away from me and more than suitable for the Life Boat. I've not made any decisions yet. I was directed to this forum by a local Marina. I appreciate your time and nice reply. It's a shame others cannot do the same. ?

[IanD]

There's one of these moored on the GU near Greenford, and it does look hideous and impractical. But probably not as hideous and impractical (and probably illegal) as the fibreglass hull with an oversized rectangular plywood box nailed on top which is moored next door... ?

 

Nowadays there are undoubtedly a lot of hideous scruffy possible unlicensed/illegal boats on the canals which are also often responsible for junk on the towpath, lived on by people who don't stick to the rules (licensing, insurance, CCing...) or care about the canals and just see it as a dirt cheap way of living, and which are hated by many people on this forum who do love the canals.

 

Or you could take the sympathetic view that they're not all scrotes, for some of them it might the only way they can afford to live because they're either out of work/unable to work or have a lousy zero-hours job, can't afford sky-high rent/mortgages (assuming they could get them), and even if they make the canals look messy it's still better than them being in a hostel or temporary accommodation which the taxpayer would have to pick up the tab for.

 

It has to be said that since he owns 3 houses and seemingly just wants to park another cheap pile of junk on the canals while ignoring the CCing rules, the OP is unlikely to get the sympathy vote that "unfortunate scruffy boaters" might deserve... ?

Edited January 4, 2021 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, David Yule said:

Thank you Mike for your kind reply. Most informative. I'm just gathering info at the moment. The River Trent is only 1 hour away from me and more than suitable for the Life Boat. I've not made any decisions yet. I was directed to this forum by a local Marina. I appreciate your time and nice reply. It's a shame others cannot do the same. ?

It is not easy to try and continuously cruise (not have a home mooring) on the River Trent.

There are very few mooring locations and they are limited to 48 hours, so you would need to move alternate days. It is not advisable to just moor up against the bank as 

1) They are privately owned and Farmers may not take kindly

2) The Trent can rise a huge amount in a very short time. When there is rain in the Staffordshire and Derbyshire catchment area it gets down towards Nottingham a couple of days later.

 

It is not really practical to CC on the River in the Winter.

 

 

 

It would of course be much simpler to take a mooring in a marina but from the original post it looked as if that was not the preferred option.

 

 

A boat that moored up on (tied up to a handy tree) the side of the Trent, the water rose, the boat sank.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[matty40s]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is not easy to try and continuously cruise (not have a home mooring) on the River Trent.

There are very few mooring locations and they are limited to 48 hours, so you would need to move alternate days. It is not advisable to just moor up against the bank as 

1) They are privately owned and Farmers may not take kindly

2) The Trent can rise a huge amount in a very short time. When there is rain in the Staffordshire and Derbyshire catchment area it gets down towards Nottingham a couple of days later.

 

It is not really practical to CC on the River in the Winter.

 

 

 

It would of course be much simpler to take a mooring in a marina but from the original post it looked as if that was not the preferred option.

 

 

A boat that moored up on (tied up to a handy tree) the side of the Trent, the water rose, the boat sank.

 

 

Just to clarify, for those who havnt seen that picture before, the boat was tied for and aft to fixed mooring points, the river rose and the boat didnt as it was held down. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

Just to clarify, for those who havnt seen that picture before, the boat was tied for and aft to fixed mooring points, the river rose and the boat didnt as it was held down. 

Indeed - highlights the differences in 'how to moor' on a River vs a Canal

[Murflynn]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Don't forget another important one which is already law but now looks as if it will be incorporated into the new Licence T&Cs

 

5. No person shall bring, use, or leave in any canal any vessel which is not in every respect fit for navigation on the canal or part thereof where it is intended to be used.

OP suggested he might just move around within a short range (presumably to pretend to CC) :  "The locks are too narrow near me. Anyone just move every 2 weeks on there  their stretch of Canal ? "

 

so he could maintain that his vessel would be in every respect fit for navigation on the canal (the part thereof where it is intended to be used).   ..............   god forbid.

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Bigtwin said:

Some, unnecessarily, and judgemental, harsh responses on this thread, IMV.

 

As a new member, it’s certainly not very welcoming to new members.

 

This seems to reinforce the points made in a similar thread from July that was resurrected recently. Neither that thread, nor this one, makes pleasant reading. ?‍♂️

 

 

Not at all, this is a boaters forum, and we all welcome newby boaters, but you want to live in a plastic bubble, even though  you own real houses. I don't think so.

 

[Bigtwin]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Not at all, this is a boaters forum, and we all welcome newby boaters, but you want to live in a plastic bubble, even though  you own real houses. I don't think so.

 

I hadn’t realised that use of the canal was restricted to those that live aboard; oh well, every day is a school day.

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, Bigtwin said:

I hadn’t realised that use of the canal was restricted to those that live aboard; oh well, every day is a school day.

So why do you want to buy a lifeboat and stick it on a canal?

Edited January 4, 2021 by LadyG

[Bigtwin]

Just now, LadyG said:

So why do you want to buy a lifeboat?

Why do you wish to know?

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, David Yule said:

Still no one with any experience then with these boats ?

Thank you for your help. Why are so many people hateful on here lol. They need to get a better life or a better Hobbie. 

I don't think folks on here could sail a Hobie Cat, too frisky .

Try another forum, have you tried any others? Mumsnet is very popular.

Edited January 4, 2021 by LadyG

[Murflynn]

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Not at all, this is a boaters forum, and we all welcome newby boaters, but you want to live in a plastic bubble, even though  you own real houses. I don't think so.

 

well said 

10 minutes ago, Bigtwin said:

Why do you wish to know?

because this is a boaters' forum and we would like to know.

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So why do you want to buy a lifeboat and stick it on a canal?

Sorry, I live in a house, shall I leave now, some on here don't own a boat at all.

[David Yule]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So why do you want to buy a lifeboat and stick it on a canal?

There seems to be a lot of Ultracrepidarian people on here. Lots of Biterness and not helpful at all. I'm sure they put people of by nasty, vindictive comments. Maybe they need to get a life / personality and chill the **** out dudes.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, David Yule said:

Thank you Mike for your kind reply. Most informative. I'm just gathering info at the moment. The River Trent is only 1 hour away from me and more than suitable for the Life Boat. I've not made any decisions yet. I was directed to this forum by a local Marina. I appreciate your time and nice reply. It's a shame others cannot do the same. ?

If you are thinking about mooring on the Trent, you would do well to read the thread running at the moment about a boat sinking on the Thames and understand why it happened.

 

(hadn't seen Alan's pic of the Trent when I posted)

Edited January 4, 2021 by Mike Todd

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sorry, I live in a house, shall I leave now, some on here don't own a boat at all.

Really?

Are they all as rude as OP?

 

 

 

 

 

[David Yule]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Really?

Are they all as rude as OP?

 

 

 

 

 

Your the Rude one dude. 

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

If you bare thinking about mooring on the Trent, you would do well to read the thread running at the moment about a boat sinking on the Thames and understand why it happened.

Mooring on The Trent?

Let me know how it goes!

Perhaps you don't know it is occasionally, dangerous?

What do you want an ex lifeboat for?

Just now, David Yule said:

Your the Rude one dude. 

I am not a dude , go away

[Bigtwin]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Mooring on The Trent?

Let me know how it goes!

Perhaps you don't know it is occasionally, dangerous?

What do you want an ex lifeboat for?

 

You appear to have an unhealthy interest in folks’ boat buying motives; why is that?

 

Personally, if I were to find myself on a dangerous stretch of water I’m not sure that I can think of a better vessel to be in than a lifeboat. ?

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, David Yule said:

Does anyone live on a Ex Oil rig Life Boat on the Canal. I'm looking at buying one. Any tips and advice most welcome. The locks are too narrow near me. Anyone just move every 2 weeks on there stretch of Canal. 

No

6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

All the totally enclosed offshore survival survival craft I have ever been inside had a bean of more than 7ft.

 

What the OP has is a GRP shell and an engine. The vessel was intended for the survival of personnel until rescued - a matter of hours. The only form of heating is the tightly packed bodies inside.

Has he bought one?

 

Tips and advice?

Don't do it.

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Really?

Are they all as rude as OP?

 

 

 

 

 

Think stones and glass houses

[Jerra]

57 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

OP suggested he might just move around within a short range (presumably to pretend to CC) :  "The locks are too narrow near me. Anyone just move every 2 weeks on there  their stretch of Canal ? "

Have I missed something?   The op said "The locks are too narrow near me"  and then says he is only an hour from the Trent.   Surely the locks on the Trent are wide enough for a lifeboat.