Tales of Whoa feature in Waterways World

[MrsM]

 Anyone else affected by this article in the most recent edition of Waterways World (p.96, Feb '21)? I found it very upsetting. I'm no snowflake and am fully aware of the horrendous life that many animals have at our hands. Nevertheless I found the descriptions of abuse and cruelty of boat horses very hard reading. Please tell me this wasn't common! Happy New Year WwW!

[ditchcrawler]

Horses were not pets they were engines

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Horses were not pets they were engines

And very tasty ones too...! 

[Tracy D'arth]

They had it easy compared to war horses and expedition horses and mules.  The British have a distorted outlook when it comes to equines, unlike the French. 

[Graham Davis]

I'm sure that the waterways were no worse than many other uses.
It was the way at that time, so stop putting modern ideas on past attitudes.

[Ray T]

Poor old Horse. 
Songs of the Inland Waterways : Poor Old Horse (waterwaysongs.info)

 

A number one came a bacca-ring by,
And they think so, and they hope so.
I said, Old man, that horse will die.
Oh, poor old horse!

Oh, he'll work all night and he'll work all day,
And they say so, and they hope so.
Put him on the inside he'll back her away.
Oh, poor old horse!

At Exhall wharf they go to load,
And they say so, and they hope so.
And then he comes out on the London road,
Oh, poor old horse!

From Atherstone in the Heart's Hill length,
And the say so, and they hope so.
T'was there that poor beast broke his strength,
Oh, poor old horse!

And after years of such abuse,
And the say so, and they hope so.
You're salted down for sailor's use,
Oh, poor old horse!

 

[Paul Gwilliams]

Donkeys out in Burma has their vocal cords cut so as not to give their positions away. 

[Paul Gwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm sure that the waterways were no worse than many other uses.
It was the way at that time, so stop putting modern ideas on past attitudes.

That could be applied to every snowflake today, and I wish I would 

The only people who can look at their actions / behaviours in the past are dead and are either upstairs or downstairs ? ?

 

It is up to us to enjoy the freedoms won and make sure history doesn't repeat itself

[Midnight]

Not read the WW feature but years ago I knew a chap from the black country who told me he often spent school holidays helping his uncle on the run between London & Birmingham. He said the horses were treated a lot better than the boatmen and if you gave a horse back that had a sweat on you got fined.

[roland elsdon]

I think the treatment of horses was atrocious. Surely they should have used children crawling on all fours like they did in the mines.

I suspect the horses were actually treated better than the humans. Stabled and rested by most boatmen.

They were a valuable resource, not to be squandered.

[BWM]

10 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm sure that the waterways were no worse than many other uses.
It was the way at that time, so stop putting modern ideas on past attitudes.

An unnecessarily antagonistic reply, it is entirely correct to both pass comment and condemn actions taken by those that are now part of history. Just because something occurred in antiquity does not render it free of judgement, in fact, i don't think the original post could have been more thoughtfully worded and didn't deserve such a vacuous remark. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

15 hours ago, MrsM said:

 Anyone else affected by this article in the most recent edition of Waterways World (p.96, Feb '21)? I found it very upsetting. I'm no snowflake and am fully aware of the horrendous life that many animals have at our hands. Nevertheless I found the descriptions of abuse and cruelty of boat horses very hard reading. Please tell me this wasn't common! Happy New Year WwW!

I found it interesting.

[Alan de Enfield]

To lighten the mood a little, but keep on topic ............................

 

Some years ago SWMBO used to 'drive' (horse and carriage) competitively (even made the National Championships) and we were discussing the possibility of using the horse to pull the NB.

Daughter In Law (a real 'towny' from Stoke) asked how we would be able to get it out of the canal each evening, and I explained that there are small ramps that are used. She then asked "wouldn't its feet get all soft and wrinkly from being in the water all day"

 

How we laughed.

[Scholar Gypsy]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

To lighten the mood a little, but keep on topic ............................

 

Some years ago SWMBO used to 'drive' (horse and carriage) competitively (even made the National Championships) and we were discussing the possibility of using the horse to pull the NB.

Daughter In Law (a real 'towny' from Stoke) asked how we would be able to get it out of the canal each evening, and I explained that there are small ramps that are used. She then asked "wouldn't its feet get all soft and wrinkly from being in the water all day"

 

How we laughed.

Not that far-fetched.  The Cambridge Colleges would not let the horses walk on the banks. You can still feel the stone paving stones along this stretch. An 1814 print.
 

 

[BWM]

13 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Not that far-fetched.  The Cambridge Colleges would not let the horses walk on the banks. You can still feel the stone paving stones along this stretch. An 1814 print.
 

 

The picture raises more questions than it gives answers, it is odd for the horse to be on such a short tow and the lifting effect of the rope coupled with the buoyancy would make the pull challenging. It also could be a tug of war, having a steamer at the other end, which appears to be both pulling and pushing...

 

 The date may make a steamer unlikely but if not, what is the smoke emitting from!

Edited January 4, 2021 by BWM

[Athy]

Well I never. Steam power versus horsepower? A student prank, I shouldn't wonder.

That' Clare College, and the stretch is still easily recognisable today.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Athy

[Scholar Gypsy]

5 minutes ago, BWM said:

The picture raises more questions than it gives answers, it is odd for the horse to be on such a short tow and the lifting effect of the rope coupled with the buoyancy would make the pull challenging. It also could be a tug of war, having a steamer at the other end, which appears to be both pulling and pushing...

 

 The date may make a steamer unlikely but if not, what is the smoke emitting from!

I suspect some artistic licence!  There are a number of prints similar to this, for example 1799  https://www.queens.cam.ac.uk/visiting-the-college/history/college-facts/the-buildings/essex-building-history

It's a fun trip in a narrowboat. The new Clare bridge is rather ugly, though ...

[Mike Todd]

16 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Horses were not pets they were engines

And also pit ponies that never saw the light of day. They remained until more recently than most canal horses.

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

And also pit ponies that never saw the light of day. They remained until more recently than most canal horses.

You get a good sense of this at the Excellent Big Pit musuem in Blaenafon, South Wales. The stables are still there (underground). 

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

And also pit ponies that never saw the light of day. They remained until more recently than most canal horses.

The Pit-Ponies did see the light of day, several times a day as they pulled the coal-trucks out of the mine towards the coal storage yard, but their stables were underground and they lived were fed, and worked underground for the majority of the time.

 

The Farm that we owned in Wales was on the site of the Ffrwd Canal & one of the deepest mines (at the time) in Wales.

 

The mine was closed in the early 1900's following an accident that was due to the compassion of the Assistant mine manager.

 

August Bank holiday and the miners had the day off, the manager was away so the Assistant manager decided to give the pit-ponies a day out in the fresh air and ordered them brought out 'above ground'.

In order to save money he then ordered the ventilation fans to be switched off.

 

When the mine was re-opened (after the holiday) there was a big explosion due to the build up of gas, the mine never made it back into full productiion and finally closed a couple of years later.

 

We obtained Planning permission to extract coal from the site and uncovered the old storage yard (and light gauge railway) - the coal was about 4 feet deep across the whole area.

 

We extracted several 1000 tonnes, which we supplied to a brick manufacturing company near Chester, where they used the coal to power their plant.

 

No 2 Son in the 'coal-hole'.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Murflynn]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Pit-Ponies did see the light of day, several times a day as they pulled the coal-trucks out of the mine towards the coal storage yard.

 

 

 

I think you missed out a rather important word - SOME

 

pit ponies were also used in shaft mines where they would never come to the surface.

[Batavia]

Here's Ruby, Berkhamsted's Gas works engine, in 1955!

Picture from the Casserley "Steaming Through Berkhamsted" book.

[Scholar Gypsy]

9 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I think you missed out a rather important word - SOME

 

pit ponies were also used in shaft mines where they would never come to the surface.

That was the case at the Big Pit.  I think (but can't be 100% sure) that they had a week in daylight, once a year when the pit shut for the annual summer holidays. 

[Pluto]

Researching the history of the L&LC, I have come across a few prosecutions for ill-treating boat horses, but not many. Talking to old boatmen over the past 50 years, they did seem to suggest that it was in their interest to look after their horses as it was a major factor in how much work they could undertake, and thus how much they got paid. As with all sections of society, there were always a few 'bad apples' whose actions gave everyone a bad name.

[Wide boat man]

One of the old lorry drivers I worked with used to work with horses on Preston Dock. The docks worked 24/7 and if the night horse was off colour he would take a day horse out, the poor beast would work a double  shift and his driver would wonder why it was so slow.