engine replacement

[Leap of faith]

Hi everyone, seen a boat a like the look of seem pretty tidy inside and out. Although of course do not know about hul and obviously would get a survey. However, only fly in the ointment is the engine  (RIGA)which through my research on this forum. I have discovered that they are very noisy.  If this is the case I would like to replace it but I know engine are expensive and many would say just look for a boat that has the engine you want. Could anyone tell me the rough cost of replacement please? 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Hi everyone, seen a boat a like the look of seem pretty tidy inside and out. Although of course do not know about hul and obviously would get a survey. However, only fly in the ointment is the engine  (RIGA)which through my research on this forum. I have discovered that they are very noisy.  If this is the case I would like to replace it but I know engine are expensive and many would say just look for a boat that has the engine you want. Could anyone tell me the rough cost of replacement please? 

 

It is a 'length of a piece of string' type question.

 

You can either try and find an engine which has the same mounting / fitting positions (not a high chance of success) or you will have to have the original mounting / engine bearers cut out or modified, or new bearers installed.

That would be quite expensive.

 

I think these little engines were manufactured in Latvia and were 'Iron-Curtian' copies of the small Lister engines so spares are probably not going to be easy to find. Also, I could be mistaken but I think ther are air-cooled (if so then you don't get any hot water for washing etc)

 

There are so many variables involved in replacing an engine (do you buy new, or secondhand, waht work is needed to actually fit and connect it up) that any price given can only be a guesstimate.

 

If you do all the work of removing the old engine  it would keep the costs down.

 

I'd suggest that it wouldn't be done for less than £5000 and probably nearer to £8,000.

 

 

Edit to add :

I posted this a few days ago - it would (POSSIBLY) be a suitable replacement engine.

 

LISTER PETTER, Lincolnshire - Ad 109981 (findafishingboat.com)

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

I think you'll need to provide a bit more information to get any sensible answers. What's the size of the boat? What's the hp of the current engine? Are you looking to replace like for like? Etc.

[BEngo]

Allow at least £10k. for something modern.  That will cover things like getting the Rigas out,  the replacement, some work to the beds, wiring changes,  piping changes and new control arrangements. 

If you want a Gardner, old Lister etc, double it or treble it.

 

The advice on buying a boat that suits you as bought is good.

N

 

[Bee]

Usually Bukhs for sale on the 'find a fishing boat' site and other places. That is where I would start. Getting the old one out and replacement in is an interesting challenge but levers, wedges, ramps and car jacks will do it. As ever, find a greasy, oily, hairy, tattooed boater who hasn't got a lot of money and give him a handful of £10 notes and the old engine and the job will be done in a day. Then get a clean, neat , tidy engineer with clean and ironed overalls to line it all up and do the fuel connections and fiddly stuff and all you need to do is polish the new engine and sail off.

[Leap of faith]

Thanks all for your advice much appreciated and very helpful. I would obviously love to find a boat that ticks many of my boxes. But unfortunately seems to be hard to find at the moment. Many would say wait until the spring when more may come on the market. The way things are at the moment would could be in tier who knows what!!! So I am pushing forward regardless.....

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Bee said:

Usually Bukhs for sale on the 'find a fishing boat' site and other places. That is where I would start. Getting the old one out and replacement in is an interesting challenge but levers, wedges, ramps and car jacks will do it. As ever, find a greasy, oily, hairy, tattooed boater who hasn't got a lot of money and give him a handful of £10 notes and the old engine and the job will be done in a day. Then get a clean, neat , tidy engineer with clean and ironed overalls to line it all up and do the fuel connections and fiddly stuff and all you need to do is polish the new engine and sail off.

This is good info if you can find a bukh at a low price as they are expensive engines. Probably the only real marine engine still available I had one on boat number 5 for a few years and it was superb.

Just now, Leap of faith said:

Thanks all for your advice much appreciated and very helpful. I would obviously love to find a boat that ticks many of my boxes. But unfortunately seems to be hard to find at the moment. Many would say wait until the spring when more may come on the market. The way things are at the moment would could be in tier who knows what!!! So I am pushing forward regardless.....

I think you will find this will be a funny sales year and different to any other even for those of us that have owned and bought/sold for many years. As a for instance I was talking to a broker two weeks a go and putting mine up for sale this week but have now decided with all this covid stuff ongoing I am hanging fire for a few weeks or months as moving off the boat will be no fun in the present climate, far better being stuck on the boat than in some house locked down. This year will be a first for the boating community or a second if you count last years weirdness.

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Thanks all for your advice much appreciated and very helpful. I would obviously love to find a boat that ticks many of my boxes. But unfortunately seems to be hard to find at the moment. Many would say wait until the spring when more may come on the market. The way things are at the moment would could be in tier who knows what!!! So I am pushing forward regardless.....

When talking about boats the saying "act in haste and repent at leisure" has never been more true.

 

Buying a boat because you want it 'this week' or because you are being kicked out of your flat this month, or because you are splitting up with the 'significant other' will all lead to disaster.

 

Arrange to stay with friends or family and 'sofa-surf' for a few weeks (join a bubble !) but DON'T buy the first boat you see unless it is 'the right one'.

One with an engine that you want to change before even trying it, because 'you have heard they are noisy' is not a good start.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

The largest non-turbod Bukh is the DV36 (3 cylinder) and it delivers around the 35 bhp but arguably with a slightly more suitable torque curve than the more usual engines.  I was perfectly happy with one in a 54ft narrowboat on tidal, river and canals, some rives close to flood but nowadays many would feel they are a but low on power. Probably only 1 alternator though.

 

Agree, beautiful engines and if I ever got another boat they would be my number one choice. Good dealer as well with T W Marine.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[David Mack]

Or buy this boat and live with the Rigas for a while, to see whether you really do need to change it.

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is a 'length of a piece of string' type question.

 

You can either try and find an engine which has the same mounting / fitting positions (not a high chance of success) or you will have to have the original mounting / engine bearers cut out or modified, or new bearers installed.

That would be quite expensive.

 

I think these little engines were manufactured in Latvia and were 'Iron-Curtian' copies of the small Lister engines so spares are probably not going to be easy to find. Also, I could be mistaken but I think ther are air-cooled (if so then you don't get any hot water for washing etc)

 

There are so many variables involved in replacing an engine (do you buy new, or secondhand, waht work is needed to actually fit and connect it up) that any price given can only be a guesstimate.

 

If you do all the work of removing the old engine  it would keep the costs down.

 

I'd suggest that it wouldn't be done for less than £5000 and probably nearer to £8,000.

 

 

Edit to add :

I posted this a few days ago - it would (POSSIBLY) be a suitable replacement engine.

 

LISTER PETTER, Lincolnshire - Ad 109981 (findafishingboat.com)

 

Gosh it's a London engine.......

[Tracy D'arth]

I have a friend with a Riga and he has been happy with it for 30 years. Parts are now hard to find but all the bits that are likely to go wrong like alternators, starters, injectors and pumps can be fettled or replaced.

[Leap of faith]

I must firstly say the information and advice given on this forum is superb!!!  It may have come across to some that I am rushing into buying a boat.  I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment "act in haste and repent at leisure". I have spent many, many hours (2 years) in looking/dreaming about finding a boat and refined my critea list many,many times!!! I am now finally financially able to go ahead and am very excited  to find the "right one" or make one as close as possible to my dream.

[Leap of faith]

Question about Belfast 115 narrow boat is it under 62 ft? as from what I understand would need to fit this critea for the whole of the canal network.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

17 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Question about Belfast 115 narrow boat is it under 62 ft? as from what I understand would need to fit this critea for the whole of the canal network.

Do you mean this boat?

If so, it says full length, which would be 70' or so.

62' won't get you through the Huddersfield Broad Canal, or the Calder and Hebble Canal.  It will make going over the Leeds and Liverpool stressful. Not impossible, but total concentration required. 57' is max for easy navigation everywhere.

Jen

[mrsmelly]

21 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Question about Belfast 115 narrow boat is it under 62 ft? as from what I understand would need to fit this critea for the whole of the canal network.

Before you restrict yourself massively for living space realy realy consider just how much north area canals you will need to use? Ten feet extra cabin on a liveaboard is MASSIVELY more comfortable. I know many many people who have a 57 foot boat who have never ever been on the Land L or anywhere up there that could have had 70 foot and the comfort.

[Leap of faith]

Missed that Belfast 115 was a full length e.g. 70' or so. Did not realise 57' is best for navigation everywhere.  A full length does worry me slightly to be honest in how I would handle it solo? Although, I do like the idea of extra space.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Missed that Belfast 115 was a full length e.g. 70' or so. Did not realise 57' is best for navigation everywhere.  A full length does worry me slightly to be honest in how I would handle it solo? Although, I do like the idea of extra space.

No different as far as solo handling is concerned. If you are hauling with all your might on ropes to control a boat you are doing it wrong.

If it is just you on board, then you will rattle around a 70'er. If there is any chance of you going up north, then it seems a silly restriction to impose on yourself. I bought a 57'er and ended up on the northern canals several years later.

Jen

Edited January 3, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

No different as far as solo handling is concerned. If you are hauling with all your might on ropes to control a boat you are doing it wrong.

Jen

Spot on. In fact I would say a full length boat is easier to handle than a short boat, much easier to keep in a straight line for sure. Once the terror wears off of the length ( Day two ) the extra space is way way better. Of course if anyone has to or wants to be based pennines etc then a tiddler it has to be. How many people pull up here and leap off hanging on to the ropes for dear life rather than using the engine!!

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Spot on. In fact I would say a full length boat is easier to handle than a short boat, much easier to keep in a straight line for sure. Once the terror wears off of the length ( Day two ) the extra space is way way better. Of course if anyone has to or wants to be based pennines etc then a tiddler it has to be. How many people pull up here and leap off hanging on to the ropes for dear life rather than using the engine!!

Aye, but what about wind? 70 footer has a lot of cabin side to act as a sail when singlehanded you  are trying to pull in to the bank.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Aye, but what about wind? 70 footer has a lot of cabin side to act as a sail when singlehanded you  are trying to pull in to the bank.

Agreed. One thing I learnt many years ago is that life is too short to move in high winds, there is always some beer somewhere until the wind drops. One reason I sold my Udson was that it was too heavy when I single handed but this colecraft being tinfoil and only 68 feet isnt so bad. However I dont move in high winds.....or indeed rain.........life is too short but it did take me a few years to realise it ?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

This Belfast definitely won't fit on most northern canals, or southern canals either for that matter. It will also be a real hand full to single hand. Fortunately, it is not on the market at the moment. Moored in London, but not a live aboard. Definitely doesn't move every 14 days.

By Alvesgaspar - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=29901203

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 Definitely doesn't move every 14 days.

Must be a member of the Baton Twirlers.

[pete.i]

Any diesel engine is noisy even modern ones and petrol engines are not much better although petrol engines are, definetly, not recommended for narrowboats. My 2017 car sounds like a tractor when I lift the bonnet. It does get quieter when I get in the cab but that is with a boat load of sound deadening. Old "traditional" engines are fearfully noisy. Some people like that, no accounting for taste I suppose. I have a Beta Marine 39 in my boat. This is a fairly modern engine and that is noisy especially when standing over it driving the boat. I suppose if you want quiet then you have to go electric. Stupidly expensive although some on this forum have done it.

 

Allow £5,000 to £10,000 minimum for an engine change.

 

In my experience every narrow boat that has a diesel type engine is noisy no matter how modern it is. I would think that rather than spending all that money on a different or new engine that, quite possibly, isn't going to make much difference it would be better to get things soundproofed better.

 

Obviously this post has gone off topic AGAIN. Pretty much par for the course on this forum. Oh well nothing changes.

[Leap of faith]

Reassuring to know 70er footer no different for solo boater and its all about technique not brute strength and the avoidance of boating in strong winds if you can. Although, I do not plan to do alot of northern canals as I have famiy in the midlands. But would like the opportunity too.