C&RT returns seized boat after legal action taken against them

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

A couple of years ago, didn't CART say that boaters need no longer display their licence?

They did, but equally the law still requires it to be displayed. Obviously CRT are accustomed to making up their own laws to suit themselves, but in this instance I think they realised that it wasn’t worth the hassle.

 

By way of an example, if you complained to CRT about a noisy neighbour, and they said “just board their boat with a large kitchen knife and stab them to death”, would that defence stand up in court?

[Flyboy]

Why would anyone not want to display a licence ?  

[Jerra]

56 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

There probably is not but no-one has yet found a way of removing the ;legal obligation to do so! 

I am glad you mentioned this.   Boaters squeal at anything they think is CRT not following the letter of the law but some (many?) feel there are laws they don't need to follow to the letter.   What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Why would anyone not want to display a licence ?  

Because it is no longer required? I am not a driver, but I believe that cars no longer display a tax disc.

In my case, I like to display the "disc" on our boat so that there can be no doubt or misunderstanding.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Because it is no longer required? I am not a driver, but I believe that cars no longer display a tax disc.

In my case, I like to display the "disc" on our boat so that there can be no doubt or misunderstanding.

Fortunately the law was changed to allow not displaying a disc on a car but not yet on a boat.   Interestingly I was told by a policeman that while the law allowed you to not display a disc there was still a law about displaying an out of day disc.  Whether that is true or not I don't know,

[Guest]

Just now, Athy said:

Because it is no longer required? I am not a driver, but I believe that cars no longer display a tax disc.

In my case, I like to display the "disc" on our boat so that there can be no doubt or misunderstanding.

I thought CRT proposed at one point that one didn't need to display your licence but changed their minds when it was pointed out the respective bye-law requiring it couldn't just be changed at the drop of a hat/on a whim.

 

So technically it is still a requirement AFAIK. Open to correction though.

 

Car tax discs are indeed no longer required but that is of course subject to completely different laws.

[Athy]

11 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

.

 

Car tax discs are indeed no longer required but that is of course subject to completely different laws.

But they serv(ed) the same purpose as the ones on boats, so it does seem inconsistent.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

But they serv(ed) the same purpose as the ones on boats, so it does seem inconsistent.

Yes it is. And that is my understanding why it was proposed by CRT.

 

However from your licence conditions.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/long-term-boat-licenses

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

But they serv(ed) the same purpose as the ones on boats, so it does seem inconsistent.

A Pub landlord must (by law) display his 'Licence' in the 'bar', he also needs to display his 'Music Licence' (from the LA), & he needs to display his PPLPRS ( licence from the Muisc Industry) etc etc.

Just because the Road Fund Licence'  is no longer required does not mean that every other licence is no longer required to be displayed.

[Jerra]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

But they serv(ed) the same purpose as the ones on boats, so it does seem inconsistent.

One reason the weren't required on cars is because the technology can check easily (NPR) as far as I am aware no such technology exists for boats.

[Slim]

I'm sure I read somewhere that having discovered that the abolition of road fund discs had resulted in an increase in non compliance re-introduction was being considered. £100 m per year rings a bell. 

I've dealt with BWT/CRT for 25 years with no issues. Mind you, I observe the spirit of our agreement and don't spend hours doing my best to be awkard.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I thought CRT proposed at one point that one didn't need to display your licence but changed their minds when it was pointed out the respective bye-law requiring it couldn't just be changed at the drop of a hat/on a whim.

 

So technically it is still a requirement AFAIK. Open to correction though.

 

Car tax discs are indeed no longer required but that is of course subject to completely different laws.

There is still a notice at Anderton saying that boats using the lift must display a current licence. For the life of me I cant remember exactly where it is

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

One reason the weren't required on cars is because the technology can check easily (NPR) as far as I am aware no such technology exists for boats.

It's just lucky that computers are 100% reliable and the internet connection never goes down, isn't it?

Which of course brings us back to why the bloke (that means "fella", Jon) lost his boat in the first place, apart from him probably not being very good at communication. Whether or not he was partly, or even deliberately,to blame, it shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have done on a manual system. Mostly, people are more efficient and reliable than computers.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

One reason the weren't required on cars is because the technology can check easily (NPR) as far as I am aware no such technology exists for boats.

A man with a pad

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

There is still a notice at Anderton saying that boats using the lift must display a current licence. For the life of me I cant remember exactly where it is

 

Between the River Weaver and the Trent & Mersey Canal, Brian.

 

Happy to help

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

For the life of me I cant remember exactly where it is

CW9 6FW

(Between the T&M and the River Witham near the village of Anderton)

[Jerra]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A man with a pad

Not quite on a par with a camera popping up a message saying xyz 123 has no "tax" paid.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There is still a notice at Anderton saying that boats using the lift must display a current licence. For the life of me I cant remember exactly where it is

There is similar at Cromwell Lock at one end of the tidal Trent too. I took this in 2015 but I presume it is still there.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

No tickee, no launchee ... 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Why would anyone not want to display a licence ?  

Because frankly it is a pointless exercise.

 

CRT don't rely on the licence to check whether a licence has been issued (if they did it is unlikely the OP problem wouldn't have arisen).

 

CRT need to get their house in order over this.

 

Oh and a PS - I could supply a paper licence to anyone for less than a quid plus postage................

Edited January 2, 2021 by Guest

[haggis]

30 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There is still a notice at Anderton saying that boats using the lift must display a current licence. For the life of me I cant remember exactly where it is

I think it is on the bit of paper you are given before using the lift. Might be wrong though

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, StationMaster said:

PS - I could supply a paper licence to anyone for less than a quid plus postage...

 

Are you offering to print a valid licence out for people, or do you have a way of correctly generating a valid reference number on the licence?

 

Note that's not the boat registration number or the mooring code, it's the other number that ties into the CRT computer system.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Are you offering to print a valid licence out for people, or do you have a way of correctly generating a valid reference number on the licence?

 

Note that's not the boat registration number or the mooring code, it's the other number that ties into the CRT computer system.

If someone from CRT can check the 'other' number for validation then they can check the boat registration number. As I said pointless.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

39 minutes ago, StationMaster said:

If someone from CRT can check the 'other' number for validation then they can check the boat registration number. As I said pointless.

 

 

Plenty of boats don't show a number, and a fair few don't show a name either. It's a reasonable assumption that a boat with no name, no number and no licence displayed is unlicensed, though what anyone could do about it beats me (and obviously CRT as well).

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Plenty of boats don't show a number, and a fair few don't show a name either. It's a reasonable assumption that a boat with no name, no number and no licence displayed is unlicensed, though what anyone could do about it beats me (and obviously CRT as well).

No dispute from me on that.