Ruston & Hornsby 3VRH

[stort_mark]

I bought Cypress a year and a half ago with a 3VRH engine which sounds great. Only trouble is I am not mechanically-minded. Everyone oohs and aahs over it but I admit I am nervous.

 

Firstly, it feels overpowered for the 45' boat and as the boat swims very easily, it's a struggle keeping the boat slow. (There's a SCG gearbox)

Does anyone else have a 3VRH on a narrowboat?

 

Secondly, what spare parts do other R&H owners keep on the boat (or at home)? I'm aware that getting parts could well be tricky so I'd like to get a stock of some parts in. I'm aware of Ray Hooley's website (and the R&H Facebook page) but just wondering what other owners do.

 

Thirdly, what tips and tricks with a 3VRH or with this type of R&H engine?

 

Finally, are there engineers on the network who specialise in R&H engines?

Edited December 29, 2020 by stort_mark

[David Mack]

Depending on exactly what version of the 3VRH this is, it has a rated output of 37.5-49.5 hp (http://realdiesels.co.uk/rustondata.html). So very comparable with the sort of modern engines people have in narrowboats, although those of us with historic boats are quite happy with half that power pushing 70 feet (or a pair of 70 footers). But it is putting that out at a lower speed than a modern engine, and you probably have a larger more efficient prop. So yes, it may feel a bit over powered.

 

[stort_mark]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Depending on exactly what version of the 3VRH this is, it has a rated output of 37.5-49.5 hp (http://realdiesels.co.uk/rustondata.html). So very comparable with the sort of modern engines people have in narrowboats, although those of us with historic boats are quite happy with half that power pushing 70 feet (or a pair of 70 footers). But it is putting that out at a lower speed than a modern engine, and you probably have a larger more efficient prop. So yes, it may feel a bit over powered.

 

Thanks for that. I hadn't seen that page. I *do* want to depower it somehow as I hardly seem to be able to get it off idle before I'm jet-skiing down the cut. I feel faster than Ben Ainslie's AC75. But then, who isn't?

[Phoenix_V]

smaller prop?

change gearbox to a prm with trolling valve?

[BEngo]

The easiest way to slow it down is to take something off the pitch of the prop.  The downsides of that are that you will be less efficient,  the engine will need to run faster for a given speed  and you will not be able to use all the power the engine can give.  You should still have stopping power though, because that is more linked to the diameter of the prop.

 

Spare parts wise, onboard,  apart  from consumables, I would suggest an injector and an injector pipe (right length, but left  straight so you can bend it to suit any cylinder when needed), a head gasket, an exhaust gasket if of the copper sandwich type, and some oil and water proof gasket paper  like flexoid or klingerit.  There is not much point in carrying with you parts for a dockyard job, or to repair a major breakdown by the side of the cut.  Don't forget a decent suite of assorted types of spanner to suit your nuts and bolts.  BSF or WW I suspect.

 At home: Bearing shells, pistons, liners,  valves and springs, anything known to be a problem or that wears,   then anything you can lay hands on.  It will all come in useful to help make a deal for something you really need but don't have!

N

 

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, BEngo said:

There is not much point in carrying with you parts for a dockyard job, or to repair a major breakdown by the side of the cut. 

Not an RH engine but the principe of carrying parts.

 

I carry as much as I can, I may not have the skills to fit it myself but for specialist (rare engine specifics) items if you have them then you don't need to wait (potentially) weeks for your mechanic to try and source them.

I find this particularly useful when coastal cruising (and not only in this country) where parts may be either unavailable or totally unknown.

 

Buy everything you can find and carry as much of it as is practicable (or keep it at home and have someone who can mail 'stuff' to you).

On my Last NB I had a complete spare engine and gearbox in my workshop - if I ever needed a part Son could remove it and either jump into the car and bring it (nowhere on the canals is much more than a few hours away in the car) or send it 'overnight' courier.

[stort_mark]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not an RH engine but the principe of carrying parts.

 

I carry as much as I can, I may not have the skills to fit it myself but for specialist (rare engine specifics) items if you have them then you don't need to wait (potentially) weeks for your mechanic to try and source them.

I find this particularly useful when coastal cruising (and not only in this country) where parts may be either unavailable or totally unknown.

 

Buy everything you can find and carry as much of it as is practicable (or keep it at home and have someone who can mail 'stuff' to you).

On my Last NB I had a complete spare engine and gearbox in my workshop - if I ever needed a part Son could remove it and either jump into the car and bring it (nowhere on the canals is much more than a few hours away in the car) or send it 'overnight' courier.

 

I think this is a good policy. The list that BEngo suggested - split into onboard and at home - seems good too.

I have been thinking about getting a spare engine but I don't think there are many 3VRH's floating around these days.

I've emailed Ray Hooley and hope to build a list of all the parts I need to source.

 

Still wondering how many other narrowboats have a 3VRH or 3VRHM.

[BEngo]

Some ramblings, aimed generally rather than specifically at the OP:

 

I broadly agree with Alan that you cannot really have too much spare gear, within space limits.  On a canal it is nearly always practical to get home or back to the car and then home in order to collect some rare widget that is needed and which you have waiting for this very moment. I once had to go home to Somerset from Whittington  and make a new insides for the impulse drive after it spat all its internals into the bilge.   Involved bikes, buses, trains and the car.  Took nearly all of a day each way and involved a complicated car shuffle to finish, but it worked.  Now of course I have a spare set on the boat.

 

Having a complete spare engine is a good deal, but often a similar but larger or smaller version is almost as good.  For example a Lister JP6.   Not going to have a crank or camshaft to fit  a JP2 or 3 but the heads fit, the pistons fit and the liners fit as do all the drive gearing,  pumps and various other items.  Was there a larger version of your type which might be a good donor?  Bigger engines are less popular and thus cheaper.  What was the type of engine you are interested in  fitted to? Cranes, diggers, tractors, gensets ?  Who offers them or breaks those for spares?

 

When keeping spares there is also the issue of practicality of repair.  If the crank breaks or the engine shoves a leg out, the resulting damage may mean a rebuild is not be worth the effort, even if you have a spare crankshaft, con rods, crank case etc. and a replacement engine is a better bet.  If you have already robbed your spare engine  blind then a change of engine type might even be easier.

 Another factor is the owner's skill level.  Mechanics are not cheap, so even if you have all the parts the cost of the job may exceed the depth of your pockets  or make an engine change more sensible.  DIY would probably take longer, but cost a lot less cash.

 

Old engine owners are usually a friendly bunch, willing to talk engines at length and usually willing to help someone in the poo, or merely trying to expand their knowledge.  Apart from the shape of the bits, and a few quirks, most elderly engines are similar.  For example,  if you can spill time one, you will be able to spill time many others. So, work on attracting  and getting to know other old engine nutters.  Leave the doors open when you tie up near other boaters.  Talk to people who peer in at the engine.  Peer in at other folks engines and talk to the owners too.  Build a network of engine contacts.  If you are at a vintage agricultural show, tractor rally or steam rally look out for the bigger stationary engines and the tractor chaps as they are into the same sized engines as boaters.  (Beware of getting Field Marshallitis though. It is worse than COVID and never goes away.)    The specialist mags are worth looking at too, not really for the content, though there can be good stuff, but for the adverts.  Who can deal with an old diesel pump or reline a gearbox clutch?.  Where can special services like metal spraying be had?  If they advertise in, say, Old Glory they are at least likely to be interested in your doohickey.

 

Owning an old engine has to be worked at.  It needs enthusiasm and understanding as well as a certain pride and, often, determination.  If that is not your thing then you will be better served by some Japanese engineering miracle that will go and go and go until it is knackered and is fit only for scrap.

 

N

 

[stort_mark]

8 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Some ramblings, aimed generally rather than specifically at the OP:

 

Owning an old engine has to be worked at.  It needs enthusiasm and understanding as well as a certain pride and, often, determination.  If that is not your thing then you will be better served by some Japanese engineering miracle that will go and go and go until it is knackered and is fit only for scrap.

 

N

 

Great advice!

 

[billh]

Another 3VRH owner here, not in a boat , it's in a 70 year old Ruston Navvy/crane. The engine last had a major overhaul in 1959. Utterly reliable, smokes a lot when it's cold , but always starts, hand or electric.

*My opinion only*: though it sounds and looks great, it is far too big for a  narrowboat it will only ever be at idling or just above, the torque available is huge , so biggest prop you can get under the counter is way to go. But , you have it already so live with it. I doubt you will need any  spare parts  and they will be hard to source anyway- 3VRH hasn't been made since about 1955, when the Ruston Bucyrus 10RB  machines went to  mostly  3YC  engines. You could try  asking the Vintage Excavator Trust  at Threlkeld if you  really feel the need for spares.

 

Bill

[billh]

5 hours ago, stort_mark said:

 

Thirdly, what tips and tricks with a 3VRH or with this type of R&H engine?

 

 

There's an excess fuel catch on the injection  pump control  rod , engage that for cold starting, it drops out once the engine speeds up.

There may be a  swivelling pot  on the inlet manifold that you can light a fire in for really cold starts- possibly replaced with an electric heater element?