VAT and boats returning to UK after 31/12/20

[Bee]

1 hour ago, XLD said:

So does the owner of a boat, built in the UK, years before VAT was invented, which is currently in EU waters, have to pay VAT if he brings it back to UK?

HM customs would possibly try it on. Jan 1st is day 1. If the boat was in EU waters on  the night of 31st dec  it should be accepted as 'Union Goods' - Ours will hopefully be just that and therefore not UK Goods. So when it turns up at a UK port on a lorry or  whatever it will be an 'Import' and any charges could be levied.  All this is due to the inept UK gov. who have had years to think these things through but have not bothered to do so. As I said, I turned to Belgian sources for info. The UK just might accept VAT paid returning goods without question but at present it is looking decidedly hostile. Our boat will eventually be sold abroad.

[TheBiscuits]

33 minutes ago, Bee said:

HM customs would possibly try it on. Jan 1st is day 1.

 

Note that that is Jan 1st 2022, not this Friday.  There is a 12 month grace period to allow boats time to return from the EU.

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/brexit-what-happens-next.aspx

 

If the boat has been in the UK in the past, then until 1 January 2022, it does not matter how long ago, as long as it can be proven that the boat has previously been in the UK and the other conditions to be eligible for RGR can be met. This is because there is an automatic waiver of the three-year rule for goods which were in the EU at the end of the transition period (after 31 December 2020) that are returned to the UK within one year of that date. 

 

The boat must also:

• be imported by the person who exported it^; and
• have undergone no more than running repairs outside the UK that did not increase its value; and 
• must have been UK ‘domestic goods’* at the time of export.

^ HMRC previously advised that it would be sufficient to show that any sale or transfer or ownership was made in compliance with VAT legislation, however it has withdrawn that advice as the legislation does not support an easement against the condition that importer and exporter must be the same person.

 

* The RYA’s understanding is VAT doesn’t have to have been paid in the UK providing the boat has been in the UK in its current ownership. 

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Note that that is Jan 1st 2022, not this Friday.  There is a 12 month grace period to allow boats time to return from the EU.

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/brexit-what-happens-next.aspx

 

If the boat has been in the UK in the past, then until 1 January 2022, it does not matter how long ago, as long as it can be proven that the boat has previously been in the UK and the other conditions to be eligible for RGR can be met. This is because there is an automatic waiver of the three-year rule for goods which were in the EU at the end of the transition period (after 31 December 2020) that are returned to the UK within one year of that date. 

 

The boat must also:

• be imported by the person who exported it^; and
• have undergone no more than running repairs outside the UK that did not increase its value; and 
• must have been UK ‘domestic goods’* at the time of export.

^ HMRC previously advised that it would be sufficient to show that any sale or transfer or ownership was made in compliance with VAT legislation, however it has withdrawn that advice as the legislation does not support an easement against the condition that importer and exporter must be the same person.

 

* The RYA’s understanding is VAT doesn’t have to have been paid in the UK providing the boat has been in the UK in its current ownership. 

 

It doesn't take much finding does it.

 

[TheBiscuits]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It doesn't take much finding does it.

 

 

It doesn't really matter in @Bee's case though - intending to keep the boat in the EU and eventually sell it there.

 

I was pointing it out for those who are/were considering bringing a boat back to the UK and thought they had run out of time to avoid paying the VAT.

 

[Phoenix_V]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It doesn't take much finding does it.

 

see post 34 and 39

 

we are fully aware that there is a short period of grace but given a desire to stay longer in the EU before returning it is not much help is it

Edited December 29, 2020 by Phoenix_V

[Phoenix_V]

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It doesn't really matter in @Bee's case though - intending to keep the boat in the EU and eventually sell it there.

 

I was pointing it out for those who are/were considering bringing a boat back to the UK and thought they had run out of time to avoid paying the VAT.

 

and just for completeness the boat has to have been in the UK at some point in it's life

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

yes (though some larger boats may be zero rated)

So what happens if you have a boat in the UK fully VAT paid and you take a trip found the Med and other parts for 12 months, are they going to hit you for VAT again  every time you come back to the UK.

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Note that that is Jan 1st 2022, not this Friday.  There is a 12 month grace period to allow boats time to return from the EU.

 

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/brexit-what-happens-next.aspx

 

If the boat has been in the UK in the past, then until 1 January 2022, it does not matter how long ago, as long as it can be proven that the boat has previously been in the UK and the other conditions to be eligible for RGR can be met. This is because there is an automatic waiver of the three-year rule for goods which were in the EU at the end of the transition period (after 31 December 2020) that are returned to the UK within one year of that date. 

 

The boat must also:

• be imported by the person who exported it^; and
• have undergone no more than running repairs outside the UK that did not increase its value; and 
• must have been UK ‘domestic goods’* at the time of export.

^ HMRC previously advised that it would be sufficient to show that any sale or transfer or ownership was made in compliance with VAT legislation, however it has withdrawn that advice as the legislation does not support an easement against the condition that importer and exporter must be the same person.

 

* The RYA’s understanding is VAT doesn’t have to have been paid in the UK providing the boat has been in the UK in its current ownership. 

What about that last line

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

and just for completeness the boat has to have been in the UK at some point in it's life

 

Sorry, yes that's correct. 

 

I did say bringing it back to the UK but that makes it clearer.  We'll get there eventually between us!

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

What about that last line

Whih is understandable, if it has never been in the UK then it will never have paid UK VAT.

Yes, there could have been 'grandfather rights' for boats that have paid EU VAT, but the situation is we are now a 'third country' and our VAT has not been paid.

 

Exactly the same as bringing in a boat from the USA, you have to not only pay VAT on the purchase price of the boat, but VAT on the cost of shipping ,and, import duty.

When it was $2 to £1 it was a good business, but now it is just not worthwhile.

[Murflynn]

23 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

A bit harsh Tim.

 

We didn't know what the final agreement was until Boxing Day!

 

That said, both the VAT thing and the 90 day stay thing have been known about for a while now.

 

 

exactly, so Mrs Melly's comment was IMHO perfectly reasonable.

[Murflynn]

everybody (or at least everybody with the wherewithal to buy a boat to take to the EU or to buy a boat within the EU) will be aware of the need for "tax planning".

 

the RYA seems to be making a point about boats imported from the EU that have not paid VAT in the UK.  Any half-aware boat owner who might be affected should surely have been aware of those circumstances long ago.

 

the other issue, allowing UK VAT-paid boats 12 months to return to the UK seems entirely reasonable ........................  as someone once said "WE HAVE LEFT THE EU" !!

[Momac]

What steps have you taken to prove the location of your boat at 11pm on 31st December 2020 as recommended  by the RYA?

 

''Does it matter where my boat is lying at 11pm UTC on 31 December 2020?

Yes. The location of your boat at 11pm UTC on 31 December 2020 will determine its future VAT and customs status.

It is recommended that you obtain and retain documentation which can be used to demonstrates the vessel’s location at the time the transition period ends.''

 

 

[Ex Brummie]

16 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

Boat was built before VAT was invented! All you need was SSR. All boats permanently based in France need to be french registered, I think technically you were allowed 1 year in France for a British registered boat without leaving but nobody was bothered because we were all part of the EU. Many boaters also had their car in France only coming back each year for an MOT.

S for many years, you were quite happy to turn a blind eye to requirements. Maybe what you then saved will compensate you for what is now due.