VAT and boats returning to UK after 31/12/20

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_V said:

Returning this thread to the subject in hand. Not many Europeans buy a boat and then take it to the UK. But there has been a steady flow of UK boats travelling to the continent. That is all going to end. Rather sad.

What is sadder is that -- just like the music problem -- there is absolutely need for it to happen... ?

[Mike Adams]

When we first heard the result of the referendum we were sailing down the river SARR and I remember the first German Lock we came to the lock keeper gave a right diatribe about Boris and I new our time in Europe was limited. We had a great 10 years but brought the boat back to the UK the next summer and sold it. It may be the final nail in the coffin of many French waterways where long distance traveling was quite often British or British flagged boats owned by other nationalities. I am surprised that some people including the 'yachtsman'  above didn't work out how bad it was going to get. I lot of Brits abroad have done very well having very cheap boating in the EU as did we. I think it is going to get very difficult to keep a English flagged boat in the EU so you either have to bring it back every year or get it registered over there.

 

[ditchcrawler]

But didn't you have to pay vat to have a boat in Europe carrying vat certs etc.

[Mike Adams]

Boat was built before VAT was invented! All you need was SSR. All boats permanently based in France need to be french registered, I think technically you were allowed 1 year in France for a British registered boat without leaving but nobody was bothered because we were all part of the EU. Many boaters also had their car in France only coming back each year for an MOT.

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Boat was built before VAT was invented! All you need was SSR. All boats permanently based in France need to be french registered, I think technically you were allowed 1 year in France for a British registered boat without leaving but nobody was bothered because we were all part of the EU. Many boaters also had their car in France only coming back each year for an MOT.

Would a 47 year old boat still be worth £50,000 ?

[Mike Adams]

Nice Mr HMRC works on market value. You argue the boat is worthless, they say 100K, you pay 20% of 100K isn't that how it works?

[Bee]

7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Next week its 2021, the vote taken to leave the eu was 2016, how long does it take to sort your life out? the best part of four and a half years is long enough. Just hanging about and not dealing with it and hoping it will go away is why some people have ended up in this position.

Ah - but up until only a few weeks ago this, like so much more, hadn't been decided by our own customs and excise and to the best of my knowledge was still being discussed. The HM customs could not know what was going to happen till Johnson had finished buggering about. We have asked the customs lot many times about this and other stuff and had conflicting and opposite answers, (just like the Covid debacle) In the end we turned to Belgian gov. advice and went with that as the UK was, up until a couple of weeks ago utterly clueless.

[Bee]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But didn't you have to pay vat to have a boat in Europe carrying vat certs etc.

Vat had to be paid but in the EU where ours was built. After that it became Union Goods and free to travel in the EU.  It was totally straightforward but sorting it out now is not. The basic shell of Bee was made in Holland, we fitted it out in the UK and stuff for it has come from everywhere. It is now in BE, next year in NL or FR. I don't think it can return to the UK although we have a form that says its VAT paid.  As it will be in Belgium on the 31st of Dec it remains Union Goods but taking it back to the UK could be expensive.   Nobody knows and there was no need for any of this stupidity. Flying the red ensign is unlikely ever to happen again on Bee

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Bee said:

As it will be in Belgium on the 31st of Dec it remains Union Goods but taking it back to the UK could be expensive.  

 

But you have another 12 months (until 1/1/22) to sell it, bring it back, or register it in an EU country.

 

Plenty of options and 12 moths to sort one out.

[sailor0500]

The people of this country voted to leave EU. Obviously some voted to stay but they must now realize that it's no good complaining and they must go with the majority decision. They have a year to decide wether to bring thier boats back or leave them in EU. which seems fair to me. There are bigger issues at stake here than a bit of VAT on boats.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, sailor0500 said:

The people of this country voted to leave EU. Obviously some voted to stay but they must now realize that it's no good complaining and they must go with the majority decision. They have a year to decide wether to bring thier boats back or leave them in EU. which seems fair to me. There are bigger issues at stake here than a bit of VAT on boats.

I still don't understand, if the boat is less than 47 years old, VAT was paid to some one at the going rate, so why does it have to be paid again?

[GUMPY]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I still don't understand, if the boat is less than 47 years old, VAT was paid to some one at the going rate, so why does it have to be paid again?

Because the uk government says it must, to stop people importing boats without uk vat being paid

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

Because the uk government says it must, to stop people importing boats without uk vat being paid

But if they took the boat from the UK the VAT has been paid to the UK government unless it was exported to a none EU country

[Phoenix_V]

19 minutes ago, sailor0500 said:

The people of this country voted to leave EU. Obviously some voted to stay but they must now realize that it's no good complaining and they must go with the majority decision. They have a year to decide wether to bring thier boats back or leave them in EU. which seems fair to me. There are bigger issues at stake here than a bit of VAT on boats.

There are lots of problems arising from brexit which have been discussed in the politics area, but this is a canal forum and we are discussing the effect on canal boaters in Europe. No one in this thread has argued against brexit (stupid though it is) the issue is the sudden and unexpected by anyone including (apparently HMRC) imposition of vat on returning boats which are already vat paid. The one year might be useful to someone planning to return soon (covid permitting) but no use to anyone else, or anyone who bought their boat in Europe as they don't get the extra 12 months, the effect will simply be to stop boats returning not a penny of extra revenue.

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if they took the boat from the UK the VAT has been paid to the UK government unless it was exported to a none EU country

that is why it is so unfair

they would get the vat twice

Edited December 28, 2020 by Phoenix_V

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Phoenix_V said:

The one year might be useful to someone planning to return soon (covid permitting) but no use to anyone else, or anyone who bought their boat in Europe as they don't get the extra 12 months, the effect will simply be to stop boats returning not a penny of extra revenue.

Can you not then just leave it where it is, register it in a EU country and still go cruising for 6 months of the year

[Phoenix_V]

1 hour ago, Mike Adams said:

Boat was built before VAT was invented! All you need was SSR. All boats permanently based in France need to be french registered, I think technically you were allowed 1 year in France for a British registered boat without leaving but nobody was bothered because we were all part of the EU. Many boaters also had their car in France only coming back each year for an MOT.

As far as I am aware the flag of the boat has little to do with vat status and there is no requirement to reregister in France, do you have a source for that suggestion?

 

[GUMPY]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if they took the boat from the UK the VAT has been paid to the UK government unless it was exported to a none EU country

That is classed as EU VAT paid by HMRC not uk VAT.

Its a no win situation I'm afraid.

Legal but morally wrong IMO

[Phoenix_V]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Can you not then just leave it where it is, register it in a EU country and still go cruising for 6 months of the year

I shall  be doing just that (apart from reregistering which is not needed) but at some point when I am older I had always thought I would return to the UK with the boat; I am  attached to it - but now when I finish in Europe it will be sold there. HMRC will not be getting a penny.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Phoenix_V

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, Loddon said:

That is classed as EU VAT paid by HMRC not uk VAT.

Its a no win situation I'm afraid.

Legal but morally wrong IMO

OK how do they know you took your boat out of the country. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

OK how do they know you took your boat out of the country. 

 

Whenever I've been out of the country you have to report to the country Customs and declare whatever you are carrying / not carrying. so your arrival will be logged, and if you don't leave, then (obviously) you will not be logged as leaving.

 

A couple of years ago we were even 'pulled over' by the Border Force and boarded about 10 miles off the Suffolk coast, we had to show passports for all on board and declare our departure and arrival ports.

We were in UK waters and had left Hull and going to Plymouth

[Phoenix_V]

22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

OK how do they know you took your boat out of the country. 

they seem to be quite good at spotting small dinghys travelling from France I am sure they would see a barge even if small, anyhow I would be more inclined towards using a lorry on the ferry!

[Jim Riley]

12 hours ago, IanD said:

What is sadder is that -- just like the music problem -- there is absolutely need for it to happen... ?

Of course it should. Its democracy. You forget that a tiny tad more than half the voters were led astray by Battle Bus lies and promises of the best deal ever, with jam and lashings of cream. Phwoar whose for whiff whaff. If only they had studied harder at skule. No more hordes of migrants. What's that whiff of rotten veg? Not enough nurses? Die quietly there's a good chap. 

[XLD]

So does the owner of a boat, built in the UK, years before VAT was invented, which is currently in EU waters, have to pay VAT if he brings it back to UK?

[Phoenix_V]

41 minutes ago, XLD said:

So does the owner of a boat, built in the UK, years before VAT was invented, which is currently in EU waters, have to pay VAT if he brings it back to UK?

yes (though some larger boats may be zero rated)

Edited December 29, 2020 by Phoenix_V

[Mike Adams]

It all depends on how you look at it. If you are a British registered Ship you can visit other countries including the rest of the EU for a limited time period and bring the boat back to the UK. Whilst within the EU you never had to declare your movement abroad ( I remember in the early 1990's you had to complete a form when leaving the country and on your return Form C??? or something, so they new when you were coming or going) I assume you will now have to do the same. I don't think there is any central record of when and where I left UK but not EU waters over the last ten years. In this case you are not exporting the boat and reclaiming the Vat so I don't see VAT is chargeable. The amount of time a foreign flagged vessel can stay in another country I think is up to individual countries law. If you left your boat in France in the 1980's over the winter you had to have it in a customs bond.