Fitting a flue pipe

[Tracy D'arth]

17 minutes ago, matty40s said:

That's what mooring pins and piling hooks are for, make sure the lines are tight when the examiner comes and the stove wont move anywhere.?

Oh, I thought the movement was relative to the boat, not to the planet. Can you provide a diagram with mooring positions, springs and tension on ropes please?

[matty40s]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Oh, I thought the movement was relative to the boat, not to the planet. Can you provide a diagram with mooring positions, springs and tension on ropes please?

I'm sure Alan d'PDf will be along shortly...

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I'm sure Alan d'PDf will be along shortly...

Unfortunately true. The sump of all knowledge.  I am surprised Nick has not jumped in with his usual "moor it up properly" cat's cradle of ropes.

 

Fortunately I have him ignored. So I can sleep soundly.

 

Its only a stove for heavens sakes, get a life!

[Onewheeler]

Although I accept that a flue might get hot, in practice ours seldom gets too hot to touch, at least at roof level. The 300 C rated stuff is likely to be fine. Maybe I'm tight-fisted with the fuel.

[matty40s]

2 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

Although I accept that a flue might get hot, in practice ours seldom gets too hot to touch, at least at roof level. The 300 C rated stuff is likely to be fine. Maybe I'm tight-fisted with the fuel.

You can (and I did) use the 300c stuff in the roof collar.

[blackrose]

On 31/12/2020 at 10:18, Tony Brooks said:

Perfectly valid experiment but I just gave a reason why the silicon might have failed (if it was a very thin bead). I can't understand why the Plumba flue I used on my stove lasted years and when the small internal fixing screws that secure the collar to the top of the stove rusted through I had a hell of a job to dig out all the silicon. Maybe I did not run ,my stove as hard as you do.

 

Likewise we don't know how hard anyone else's stove is going to run so perhaps we need a degree of caution when recommending what products to use. 

 

Plumba flue the wrong product for the stove top as it's only recommended for 300C and some stove tops can get to that sort of temperature. There are all sorts of botched jobs that might work, but if one wants to do a proper job it's best to use the proper products & equipment.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Can I just say that if you use Envirograf at the stove end, then make sure you have somewhere else to go when you first fire it up.  A long walk would do.  Wigan in the rain wasn't good.....

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

Can I just say that if you use Envirograf at the stove end, then make sure you have somewhere else to go when you first fire it up.  A long walk would do.  Wigan in the rain wasn't good.....

I can second that.... and leave the windows open!

[Tracy D'arth]

On 31/12/2020 at 12:55, matty40s said:

You can (and I did) use the 300c stuff in the roof collar.

I find the cheapest silicone goo is fine on the roof end but Envirograf better for the fire end.  The smell is an acquired taste!?

[NB Alnwick]

This is all very interesting - when I last replaced our flue , I didn't use any sealant at the top end. I had to grind away a fair bit of rust from inside the cast collar until the flue was a good sliding fit. I then used a chimney with an attached liner, sealed at the top - where the internal sleeve fits inside the flue and the outer casing fit on the outside of the collar. This has worked really well with no leakage at the top and the flue able to move up and down freely as it expands and contracts . . .

[Opener]

Can anyone speculate what sealant I bought? Being prepared I bought a cartridge ready for when I needed it - stored on board under the step.

20,000 mile service on the stove the other day. Thorough brush out, removed baffle plus a pile of ash. Raked out the stove top to flue joint. Retrieved the sealant cartridge and trimmed the nozzle, then cut the end off the cartridge. Into the gun and pressed - nothing. Only needed a small amount so dug into the end with a screwdriver - nothing. So, took a saw to the centre of the cartridge - nothing.

Total contents of the pristine, sealed cartridge were solid - plan B. Can't remember where I bought it so no comeback. Just two pretty red plugs. 🙄

[Tracy D'arth]

All glue cartridges have a shelf life even if not opened.

[Opener]

15 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

All glue cartridges have a shelf life even if not opened.

I accept that - it's unusual to be able to use any cartridge product more than once despite all precautions taken to reseal. But what is the mode of curing in high temp sealant? The 'cut off' end was intact and the piston unmoved. I suppose I don't know how long it had been in store before I purchased and I did not have in stock for long. Hey-ho - lesson learned 🥺.

[blackrose]

On 20/06/2022 at 13:48, Opener said:

I accept that - it's unusual to be able to use any cartridge product more than once despite all precautions taken to reseal. But what is the mode of curing in high temp sealant? The 'cut off' end was intact and the piston unmoved. I suppose I don't know how long it had been in store before I purchased and I did not have in stock for long. Hey-ho - lesson learned 🥺.

 

I use cartridges more than once until they're finished all the time. A bloke I used to work with put a big screw in the end of the nozzle, but if that doesn't work I just take the nozzle off and replace it. You can buy packs of nozzles in some pound shops 10 for a quid.

 

Sometimes if you leave them for a long time and they've got warm they can solidify completely. 

[Slim]

On 26/06/2022 at 06:29, blackrose said:

 

I use cartridges more than once until they're finished all the time. A bloke I used to work with put a big screw in the end of the nozzle, but if that doesn't work I just take the nozzle off and replace it. You can buy packs of nozzles in some pound shops 10 for a quid.

 

Sometimes if you leave them for a long time and they've got warm they can solidify completely. 

Silicone is rather like Colemans mustard. Coleman used claim that his fortune was made by what his customers left on the side of their plate rather than what they ate. Silicone manufacturers profit is in what is thrown away rather than what is used.

[jupiter1124]

I'm about to tackle this job for the third time myself, while the weather means I don't need a fire.

 

The first time I got some pretty serious water leaks from between the roof chimney collar and the flue (which fits inside the bottom of the roof collar). This water would run down the outside of my flue leaving a tarry mess that stank when ir heated up. The chimney is a double skinned jobbie that sits over the outside of the collar. I'm not sure if it was rainwater or some kind of condensation, a witches hat didn't help too much.

 

So I reinstalled from scratch, I bolted the stove down to the concrete base (it was free floating before) and used copious amounts of 300 degree silicone on the inside and outside of the roof collar / flue joint. That seemed to do the trick!

 

However last winter the stove cement I had used between the stove top collar and bottom of the flue developed cracks and started emitting fine puffs of smoke. Not enough to set off my CO or smoke alarms but enough to stink out the boat and make it unpleasant. My guess is the rope seal was no good and expansion/contraction cracked the cement.

 

So I have taken the whole thing to pieces again and I'm going to try again with rope and Envirograf hi temperature silicone.

 

I'm also going to take this opportunity to put in some pretty tiles that Mrs Jupiter wants (at the moment it is just a bare cement block).

 

I really hope third time is the charm. Any tips on how to be luckier with the leaks?

 

Is there anything I need to consider when choosing tiles? Heat resistance?

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, jupiter1124 said:

Is there anything I need to consider when choosing tiles? Heat resistance?

 

When we did ours, I spoke with several 'boat stove installers'and they all said use porcelain tiles as they are much more heat rsistant and less prone to cracking.

Use 'cork tile adhesive' as that allows for movement (expansion and contraction) and impact resistance / shock loading when you hit something.

 

I take it thatyou are aware of the 'best practice' installation recommendations :

 

Basic (soliftec.com)

 

 

How on earth did you boat pass a BSS with the stove 'free-floating' ?

 

8.4.3 Are non‐portable appliances properly secured against accidental or unintended movement? R

Check for the presence and condition of securing systems on all non‐portable appliances.

Where practicable, apply light manual force to check the security of all non‐portable appliances.

Where a manual check is not practicable,such as with solid fuel and oil‐fired stoves, check the condition of securing systems

[jupiter1124]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

use porcelain tiles as they are much more heat rsistant and less prone to cracking.

Use 'cork tile adhesive' as that allows for movement (expansion and contraction) and impact resistance / shock loading when you hit something.

Porcelain tiles and cork tile adhesive. Check. Will do

 

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How on earth did you boat pass a BSS with the stove 'free-floating' ?

No idea, was before my time. Perhaps the previous owner installed the stove after getting a BSS? To be fair it was heavy and somewhat held in place by the flue. Not excusing it but it wasn't exactly easy to move more than a quarter inch.

 

I bolted it down and got another BSS 👍H

 

owever the BSS neither notices or cares about water leaks, but the foul fumes that emanate when the tarry liquid on the flue is heated definitely smell like they are doing me some harm.

[David Mack]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How on earth did you boat pass a BSS with the stove 'free-floating' ?

Fixing the stove to the concrete base is good, but only complies with the BSS if the concrete base itself is fixed so it can't move if for example you ran into a fixed object at speed. Is yours fixed?

[MtB]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How on earth did you boat pass a BSS with the stove 'free-floating' ?

 

 

One of those 'drive by' BSSs one hears about, probably.

 

Equivalent probably to a drive by survey when you are buying a house. 

 

I mean, who cares what the survey says as long as they give you the mortgage? DAMHIK, about stuff like this? So who cares if the stove moves a bit when you hit. lock sill? How many people have been killed as a result? Do have a guess....

[jupiter1124]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

Fixing the stove to the concrete base is good, but only complies with the BSS if the concrete base itself is fixed so it can't move if for example you ran into a fixed object at speed. Is yours fixed?

As i didnt install the concrete base, it would be impossible to know without destroying it. It looks like it sits actually on top of the laminate floor and up against the wall with the backing boards and tiling (which I can clearly see are fixed to the wall).

 

When i reinstall, what I can do is drill further right through the concrete base into the laminate flooring and whatever is underneath it (of course being careful to not go right through the baseplate!) and use longer rods to fix it.

 

In any event, I have in fact ran accidentally ran into a fixed object at  full speed, was quite a disaster at the time with everything inside shifting, moving and breaking, but the stove didn't budge a millimetre. So it has been tested!

 

7 hours ago, MtB said:

One of those 'drive by' BSSs one hears about, probably.

Maybe. The boat originally didn't have a stove and it looked fairly new, I reckon it is possible that the stove installation happened after the BSS.

 

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

take it thatyou are aware of the 'best practice' installation recommendations :

 

Basic (soliftec.com)

The installation complies with all of this, except that my flue isn't insulated. I have heard mixed reports on that, maybe it would be worthwhile to improve draw. One thing I definitely would like to do is get a longer chimney for the outside, my 2' double skin one is to spec, but I'd love to get a 3' (or more?) insulated one to improve draw and also to get less smoke coming back in through the vents / windows.

 

I really despise the smell of solid fuel fumes, they make me feel very unwell. Maybe i should consider switching to wood.